I have used all versions of RM. I had switched programs with RM8, but did buy RM9. My daughter bought me RM10 earlier this month as a gift. I missed the People List so am trying again to like the new format. (I think I was getting there!)
I’m working from the People List and every 3rd person, like clockwork, every time I use the program, I click in the list and it brings up this:
Error: Argument out of range
It takes about 30 minutes for the error to start. I was surprised to see that this was happening from 2023 to now. How did you fix it?
It did not happen in RM9. Before I knew it was an old problem, I deleted RM10, did a good clean, downloaded a new copy, restarted, and it still happened. I am Windows 11, RM 10.0.5.0.
This is a well known problem. As far as I know, it has existed in every version of RM8, RM9, and RM10. I cannot explain how you did not encounter the problem in RM9 but you do encounter the problem in RM10.
In my experience, the problem happens only after a fairly long period of fairly heavy data entry. It’s almost like RM gets tired if you make it work too hard. And indeed, sometimes I almost get a premonition that the problem is about to happen. It’s like the timing of the way RM responds is subtly different just before the problem happens.
A more likely cause is some sort of memory leak, but even that explanation is by no means certain. And no matter what the problem is, it is by no means certain that the problem is in the RM code itself. The problem could possibly be in one or more of the programming libraries that RM uses.
The conventional advice is to shut RM down, restart RM, run Files > Tools > Database Tools, and then to resume working. There is no harm in running Files > Tools > Database Tools, and you should do so occasionally no matter what. But I’m dubious that running Files > Tools > Database Tools does anything to prevent this problem from happening. It seems to me more likely to be related to how many transactions you perform in a single RM session.
I bought RM8, it was the joke that wasn’t funny. So I bought Family Historian. RM 9 came out, I bought it hoping, but I didn’t really like how it worked so I used FH and put only RM7 on for the People List, until after a few months I realized 7 had bled out over 150 individuals. I put back RM 9 for the People List until my daughter bought 10 for me. It is the only one I have gotten the error in.
I am not doing data entry, I sync reference numbers to my paper file numbers, and 10 was not recognizing 3 individuals. I was only clicking through the list to see who was missing and why. I was making sure the ref# was the same as my book, only clicking on the #. Click - Click - Click+error, over and over. I could do this very quickly if not for the error. I have not done any heavy data entry in 10. I’ve only had it a short time and I needed to know where my individuals went.
I’ve spent 3 days doing all you recommended and more, several times. No change. After about 30 minutes, problem is back.
Customize the People List view by adding the Reference No. fact. Sort by clicking on that column header. You will be able to see who does and doesn’t have a REFN fact and what they are.
If RM7 does what you need to do, why not use it. I have never used a more reliable computer program.
I do data entry several hours a day and am editing a large database of over 300,000 people by making comparisons to Family Search and rarely changing anything in the RM10 database. I rarely get an error message from RM7 but when using RM10 I get several errors per day when I am primarily comparing people in FamilySearch.
I do run database tools to rebuild indexes and compact the database every few hours, so perhaps that does relate to your issue. Once in awhile I restart my computer as well, but sometimes I go several days without doing that.
@Twigs— this is an old problem that started in RM 8-- clicking thru a list kind of fast is when it shows up-- by using either / or index list or chevrons next to name and it shows up somewhere between 650 and 1000 click generally ( or in your case every 30 minutes).
Once the error happens you need to close RM and run the tools as Jerry said-- I have at times rebooted the computer–seems to slow down the argument out of range errors.
Typically this is the only time I get argument out of range errors BUT???a
As @thejerrybryan said before "It’s not repeatable on demand, but it’s repeatable eventually" I find that to be accurate – you are not likely to have it occur 5 mins after launching the program.
I do lots of “work” eventually you are nearly guaranteed to see it eventually. Not sure if platforms matters (W10/W11 or mac )
Thank you all for the great responses! I see it will not be fixed as it started with 8. Funny, just on the new format versions. Well anyway, I actually finished my task in RM9 without issue today, and managed to get the numbers to sync. So I may welcome back version 7 as my extra with FH.
mscheffler: I was always afraid to run the tools too much, but I will adopt a more cautious approach now, and hopefully get ahead of the problems. Thank you!
Sorry going to have to disagree with It’s not repeatable on demand…
In a case where you are entering a lot of data, it may or may NOT happen BUT if you are rapidly clicking thru the database such as deleting a large amount of people/places or just clicking from person to person looking for a specific item etc it is repeatable on demand
It takes a little while but it will happen abt every 30 to 40 minutes ( usually 650-1000 clicks)..
I can take any database and make it happen. I’m not an expert but I sometimes think that in these cases, you are clicking so fast, making a change then clicking again that eventually the system is not keeping up BUT who knows.
note-- yes I do realize that you can now delete a whole bunch of people at one time but this was before RM 9 & RM 10
Can you express any clear set of actions in a sequence within a particular functional segment of the program that always leads to the problem? On demand is the key part of the assertion. Sounds like you’re really just describing the same inevitability that other users are also experiencing. That’s the repeatable part. On demand would be a more narrowed scope whereby a particular test case for reproducibility would allow specific code review / troubleshooting / isolation and, ultimately, a fix or change in the feature offering. Otherwise, you’re just describing that it happens eventually in various parts or phases of program use and the elements in play are numerous coroutines operating in conjunction, when it suddenly begins not working. The two programmers always seem to aim to fix bugs they can reproduce.
I clicked around a little on the People list a little. I fixed a cup of tea, talked to my daughter and came back to the program. At 2:01 I got the first Error: Argument out of range.
Click, click and click/Error, every third click the error pops up, no matter how long I do it.
I performed a matching sequence like Twigs did and 24 minutes later continued as described with absolutely no error. RootsMagic had been open since this morning and Edge browser had about 70 tabs open with one being a YouTube video playing a long interview the entire time. Windows 11 laptop w/Intel i5-1240p & 16gb.
To reiterate Jerry’s initial comment, once you get the first error you need to shutdown RM. Continuing to work in a RM DB without restarting the program is going against the advice from the RM support team and does increase the frequency of error occurrence.
what I am saying that if the exact set steps do not produce the exact same result it not repeatable.
I am not saying that similar thing step will not eventually result in “argument out of range”.
I have seen the error occur after only a few minutes – I have done heavy work and it does not occur. Sometimes week or more goes by and I have not seen it.. there in lies the inconsistency.
Error: Argument out of range is different than the Access Violation I think some are referring to. Open a support ticket with the steps to recreate it and we will take a look. https://support.rootsmagic.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
You are right! I’ve read of others, and there are many, complain about it. It happens in many ways. I just happen to get the error in the same place and way every time. I’m going to use RM9 today to enter a lot of data. If I get the error in 9, I will take the advice of mscheffler and only have RM 7 on my computer as backup. Then I’ll go back to my FH. It’s too bad. I was beginning to like the new format RM. What a waste of money.
Good Luck.
FH7 is s solid program – its just does not do what I need it to do.
No program likely does everything one wants to do . I use RM10 as primary
Occasionally I will use FH7 for certain task. Ancestral Sources is a great tool for example.
FTM19 /24 has couple feature no available elsewhere for example.
@kevinm and @kbens0n --I understand what you are saying–when you get an argument out of range error, it is random and therefore not repeatable on demand BUT that is NOT what @Twigs and I are talking abt–we are talking abt a specific set of steps that cause the error time and time again–when I can open any database in RM 8, RM 9 or RM 10 numerous times any day, any week, any month or any year ( since abt July 2023) and the error occurs when I use a specific set of steps that cause the problem then that is repeatable on demand.
note I have never had the argument out of range error occur in RM7
@kbens0n --It’s not a matter of time-- the error occurs somewhere between 650-1000 clicks usually–sometimes a little more–sometimes a little less.
As for the specific steps
1)-- you could copy your database, rename it test or delete and go in and just start deleting everybody by click on the names in the indexes or using the chevrons-- I usually use family view
2) just click on different names in the index and/ or use the chevrons.
like @Twigs , I tried using the People List tonight -clicking on the names and deleting a few facts as I went-- Result
almost all of my errors seem to have a common factor-- AND THAT IS EDITING ( or deleting as in my case)-- to me editing means changing or deleting something BUT that may NOT be what others are talking abt…
Windows 11 latest versions on RM 8, 9 and 10-- 64 bit–not using any cloud storage
PS @Twigs – you are pausing your cloud storage while working in RM, if you have any?
I contacted support abt this issue back in July 2023 as did a least one other person on the facebook group-- response back from @rzamor1
It’s very clear by your description that you are receiving the argument out of range error coming from the list manager. Development is working on this issue. It can take 100’s of clicks before you see it. While working in the index and deleting individuals the error is being triggered. Like you said it can be somewhere between 670-1000 clicks. This error will not damage your database at all. You will need to close RM after you receive this error to clear it. Otherwise you get meaningless errors, most often the access violations errors message. The biggest thing is it annoying, but not harmful. We appreciate your patience while development works through this issue.
PS-what brand is your laptop that you can be working in RM while playing a YouTube vide with 70 tabs open?
@Twigs – you said you have used all versions of RM— so if you had ( or still have RM 7), you MIGHT think abt going back to RM 7 as your main program especially when cleaning up the database and then only using RM 9 or RM 10 for tree share or Family search, or other issues…
I don’t usually use the People List–usually Family View and as @kevinm said when entering data the error just shows up randomly–just a thought
