I wanted to add an explanation using the description field to an Alternate Name fact. I have checked and the description field is enabled for this fact type but it does not appear. With other fact types enabling the description field has resulted in it appearing below the place details field.
Is this a bug? or is there another explanation.
I don’t think anybody in the RM user community can really answer this one. I think it will have to be answered by RM staff.
The only thing I would point out is that the Alternate Name is not really a fact in the same sense as are Birth and Marriage and Death, etc. Names are their own separate things, whether they are the Primary Name or whether they are Alternate Names. And I can tell from the RM database structure that the name records don’t have a place to store a description, whereas actual facts do provide a place to store a description.
I suppose that actually is an explanation, except that it then raises additional questions, such as why does the Description field even appear as an option to be turned on or off for Alternate Name? Or why does Alternate Name even appear in the fact list since it isn’t a fact. Might there be a different way to enter Alternate Names since they aren’t really facts?
I don’t know that there is a better way to do it than the way RM already does it. Software engineering is like all engineering. It’s about compromise. And the current compromise seems as good as any to me. A bigger issue for me is that for all practical purposes, the Primary Name is pretty worthless because it can’t have it’s own notes and citations and media. Alternate name can have those things, and Alternate Names can be swapped with the Primary Name. But if an Alternate Name is swapped into being the Primary Name, then any notes or citations or media associated with the name as an Alternate Name become non-functional for the Primary Name. They are still there, but they don’t do anything.
Thank you your explanation helped even if it didn’t solve my problem! For now I am adding a date to the alternate name relating to when it first is used which will help link the name to the source I found it.
I do think that if a field isn’t available it should not appear as an option - if I can’t use the description field remove my option to enable it!!!
No, it’s not a bug. Support just told me that the Description field will not be used anymore at Alternate name.
Karleif Lende
adding to what Jerry said – RM does not use GEDCOM per say – its has database table fields that are later mapped to GEDCOM “Tags” and info that is later in the GEDCOM result. Family Historian is of the few programs I have I used where the GEDCOM basically feeds the program. The exact set of data can produce different GEDCOM (I am not going to attempt to explain that because I would do a terrible job). So either way RM team would need to provide info
Essentially, there are three categories of fact-types. They are Individual, Family and Name.
Only Individual facts have the Description block.
Marriage/Divorce/Census(family)/etc. and Primary Name/Alternate Name do not.
Did they give any reasons? Alternate name is a field that requires explanation and the name type field is insufficient.
I would disagree that it isn’t a bug - if the field doesn’t work it should be removed - so if description isn’t available for alternate name or other fields it should not be available to enable.
This was one reason I stopped using “family” fact types they have less flexibility. Right now where the alternate name is due to its use in a census I am adding to the description field of the census fact the name used in the census and in the alternate name the date it is first used. Not ideal but it lets me see the information clearly on the main page.
The Alternate Name fact has never had a description field. The Fact Type List had an active checkbox and that was grayed out in RM10. Now it won’t be confused as usable. All the other fact types, including family facts, have description fields if enabled.
Not certain what you are seeing but in my install of RM11 both the Place field and Description fields are grayed out. The only way that I can think of that either would be enabled is if your Alt Name is actually a custom fact.
Interesting. On the 11.0.2 mac version, I am seeing what Kenneth described. The “Use place field” and “Use description field” checkboxes are greyed out and de-selected. They cannot be selected.
@KaitlinB As shown and you all have stated the place and description field are greyed out and there is no where for you to add a description on the edit page as you state..
BUT the sentence fact is as you show
[person] was also known as [Desc]< [Date]>.
In this case, that is because Description is AUTOMATICALLY used for the Alternate Name..
If desc wasn’t in the sentence then your fact would read
John Henry Smith was also known as in 1921-1945..
You could manipulate the sentence somehow to include a small amount of extra info by adding it to the alternate Given or Surname BUT remember that whatever you add to the given or surname will show up in the index
@nkess I just reread your explanation slowly and now understand why the description field isn’t there for the name field but I feel like that isn’t a valid manipulation of the data. rzamor1 said there has never been a description field for the alternate name, understandable if they used it to create the sentence fact. I just don’t understand why they used a standard field in a non standard way.
My point is that if you look at the place and description fields in my screenshot they are checked and greyed out indicating that at some point they were available to select. If a field is greyed out along with the check box it is clear that the field is not relevant but that is not what my screenshot shows. It looks like the original presence of checkboxes for these fields was accidental and has thus been “corrected” leaving my fields enabled. I don’t want to corrupt the name fields to include information that doesn’t belong there, I want to clearly indicate where the name originates from and why. This information belongs in a description field. The “name type” field is only a starting point and isn’t customizable. For example if a name change is by deed poll it likely needs an explanation which is not buried in the notes where it will rarely be seen. For now I will continue to group the alternate name where possible with the fact type it is linked to e.g. census, death, etc using the date field and add the description to those fields instead. I am not sure what to do for the deed poll example. rzamor1 do you know why the name fields do not have a description field?
They were never available. That is why nowadays they are greyed out. Prior to version 8, they were merely listed and checkmarkable, but never were available. This was likely because GEDCOM structures for certain tag types do not support the additional Description for transfer.
The fact that a GEDCOM doesn’t support the field isn’t a justification for it not being there. All database translations are imperfect. If it isn’t supported exclude it when you create the export file.
The programmers are not enabling it …on purpose. You can be right that they need to be visually removed, though.
You might have a custom fact called Alt name or similar but it does not seem to be the built in one
also its grayed out from changing
so it might have come from importing at one point
@kevync1985 this is the built in Alternate Name it has come from my original RM7 database
As has been pointed out, in version 7, you could checkmark those boxes, but they were never useable. Description did not exist for Alt Names. Version 10 and 11 seem to have correct the oversight which allowed you to check those boxes, even though they did not exist in the database. I suspect you will not get a description field for Alt Names just due to the database layout. If you must enter information for an Alt Name, then you are going to be using Notes or creating your own custom Alt Names fact. Continuing to flog a dead horse isn’t going to make it finish the race.
