Thanks Tom and Jerry
So how can I share my test base as I don’t see a way on here BUT
You can share a backup on Dropbox, Google Drive, OneDrive and make it available publicly for download, post the link here for anyone or in PM to selected ones.
I made a four person database with the problem. It is pristine in that I have done nothing except to type in the four people. You can download it at Four Person Doe Family
Dropbox will tell you it can’t load this file. That’s just because it doesn’t know what an RMTREE file is. But you can download it via File > Download.
Run a Relationship Chart between the sisters Liz Doe and Jane Doe. My results are as follows. The mother Jane Smith is missing.
RM’s Family View for the family is as follows.
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I restored the backup of the tree that @nkess posted the problem with the Relationship Chart showing only one of the two common ancestors and ran the same Chart between the same two people. Surprise! I got both. What that suggests is that there is a difference between our two systems in:
- The RM10 setup
- The RM10 software
- The computing platform (OS, drivers, that Microsoft Edge WebView stuff, maybe even hardware??)
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That is amazing. As Tom already said about his experience with the database from nkess, it can’t be the database. Of his three guesses for what it might be, my money is on the RM10 setup. Except I have played with changing some of the setup options without being able to influence the outcome. It really makes no sense.
Maybe a RM Reset would fix it, at risk of losing your settings.
Could one install an independent instance of RM as an alternative? With a different name in different location?
I get only the father’s name on the chart. Here is my system info:
I have the latest RM version 10.0.5.0.
| Device name | HP_Desk_Tower |
|---|---|
| Processor | AMD Ryzen 5 5600G with Radeon Graphics 3.90 GHz |
| Installed RAM | 12.0 GB (11.3 GB usable) |
| Device ID | AD0D6E46-0576-4415-AEF5-632A398C1D7F |
| Product ID | 00342-22411-93243-AAOEM |
| System type | 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor |
| Pen and touch | No pen or touch input is available for this display |
| Edition | Windows 11 Home |
|---|---|
| Version | 24H2 |
| Installed on | 12/7/2024 |
| OS build | 26100.3775 |
| Experience | Windows Feature Experience Pack 1000.26100.66.0 |
I’m presently traveling. When I get home, I plan to install RM on a second computer to see what happens with this problem. It will be a completely fresh install on a computer that has never had RM installed before. I will accept all the RM default options without changing anything. That should be a pretty good test.
Also, I would love to hear from the RM folks on whether they can reproduce this problem or not.
After following this thread from the beginning, I have one question that hasn’t been addressed yet. “Which version of RM10 is being used, 32bit or 64 bit?” It seems to me that in compiling the different versions a minor difference might be introduced in the two versions by the development tool. It shouldn’t, but I can’t prove that it doesn’t at this point. I’m running 64 bit RM 10.0.5 under W11Pro and only get a single MRCA.
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What does this tell us ?
Below is a mother and her two children with no spouse entered (ie. both children of one Unknown spouse).
Note the relationship designation as “half siblings”.
Does it seem like surname assumptions have come into play, without any data to confirm the DNA relationship? If I were to add Jane’s ancestors and select a different descendant (of theirs) as endpoint for the second person, wouldn’t that further be propagated (surname guessing) without known spouse(s) for Jane?
EDIT:
My bad, adding the two children sequentially with different Surname caused RM to add two Unknown spouses. Trying too hard to break something, for sure.
Adding a spouse shifted to the Male as common (64-bit Win11):
I am 64 bit. I usually try to post that as a part of my configuration, but I forgot to include it this time.
It’s unlikely that the actual surname has anything to do with it. Parents are being matched by their RIN’s rather than by their names. In this case, the issue is surely that the FatherID in RM’s FamilyTable is zeroed out. The zeroing out of either the FatherID or the MotherID in RM’s FamilyTable is what happens when there is only one parent in the family. The FatherID and the MotherID in the FamilyTable are RIN numbers.
The logic being used for full sibling is probably whether one of the parent ID’s in the FamilyTable is the same or both of the parent ID’s in the FamilyTable are the same. You might think that a zero for the father of one of the siblings would match a zero for the father of the other sibling. But the logic is probably also doing a join against the PersonID in the PersonTable. The PersonID in the PersonTable is also a RIN. The zero for the FatherID will fail to join with any PersonID in the PersonTable. Hence, the result is half siblings rather than full siblings. At least that’s my wild guess.
If there were not a join to the PersonTable in the logic, then these two would probably show up as full siblings instead of half siblings. Or the logic might not be doing a join to the PersonTable but rather is testing for the zero explicitly. But my wild guess money is on the join.
By the way, I think this was a very insightful test - forcing RM to choose the female parent when it sometimes seems to want to choose only the male parent.
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Using the test_relationship_chart data base and looking at the family table it shows a Fatherid of 1, Motherid of 2 and Childid of 3.
There is no indication of childid of 4 which appears in the child table.
I wonder if this indicates a problem with the Family Table?
No it does not indicate a problem with the FamilyTable.
The ChildID in the FamilyTable doesn’t mean quite what it might seem to mean. Indeed, there is only one ChildID in the FamilyTable, no matter how many children might be in the family. The actual record of the children for the family is stored only in the ChildTable.
The ChildID in the FamilyTable has to do with the left and right chevrons in Pedigree View which are used to slide back and forth which 5 generations are being shown. (Sometimes 6 generations are shown.) When you use the chevrons to slide the view to the right, a new person appears as the root person to the left of the display. RM has to pick one of possibly many children to be the one to slide into the root position. It uses the one and only ChildID which is stored in the FamilyTable to make that choice. Namely, the ChildID in the FamilyTable is the child in the family who was most recently active as the root person in Pedigree View. In other words, that’s how RM remembers which child to put back into the root person of Pedigree View when you use the chevrons to slide the view to the right. That is the only thing the ChildID in the FamilyTable does.
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Thanks for the info!
@TomH --Thank you for doing that-- I really appreciate it as I know you have other irons in the pot. I also saved the relationship chart as a pdf and it didn’t change anything
@thejerrybryan Thank you or posting your database so that we could download it–I was able to download it and got just the paternal line-- No surprise–Support has my database and suggested one change as they thought it would work-- tried the change BUT still only got the paternal line–haven’t heard from them since…
As for some of the other questions-- mine is a 64 bit ( knew I was forgetting something when I posted earlier)-computer abt 3 years old..
System info
Device name DESKTOP-8Q3897A ( Inspiron 3891)
Processor Intel(R) Core™ i5-10400 CPU @ 2.90GHz 2.90 GHz
Installed RAM 12.0 GB (11.7 GB usable)
System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Pen and touch No pen or touch input is available for this display
Edition Windows 11 Home
Version 24H2
Installed on 2/18/2025
OS build 26100.3775
Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 1000.26100.66.0
So @cweese and I have the exact same Windows edition…
on mac (M1 Chip, latest OS [Sequoia 15.3.2], and RM 10.0.5.0) I get the same results as Jerry – paternal relationship only
Found a copy of 64 bit RM10.0.1, installed on a new PC, Win11Pro on Intel N150, 16GB memory, 500GB M2 ssd.
Using test_relationship_chart data base, a relationship chart shows both parents when comparing daughters.
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Found a copy of 64 bit RM10.0.2, installed on a new PC, Win11Pro on Intel N150, 16GB memory, 500GB M2 ssd.
Using test_relationship_chart data base, a relationship chart shows both parents when comparing daughters.
Found a copy of 64 bit RM10.0.3, installed on a new PC, Win11Pro on Intel N150, 16GB memory, 500GB M2 ssd.
Using test_relationship_chart data base, a relationship chart shows only the Father when comparing daughters.
RM did something in their efforts to correct the loss of data issue after running a Relationship Chart that is only showing the father rather than both parents. A guess is that they omitted the selection of the mother’s data when printing the chart.
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