This is just an FYI to the devs. I’m on a plain vanilla Windows 10 x64 PC with the latest updates to that and the latest version of RootsMagic v10 (as of yesterday).
I imported my old RootsMagic v7 family tree. This has no extras eg media files or pictures. Just names, the standard facts, and notes. The program and the tree are both on the same solid state drive in the PC on my desk - no cloud or network involvement whatever. And I have no anti-malware installed other than the built-in Windows Defender.
I needed to delete a lot of people. After doing a dozen or so, I began to get access violations. Soon every deletion would get a violation. So I’d shut down RM and restart it. After a couple of deletions the Access Violations would start again. I must have cleared 200 of these.
So, again just FYI, there is a problem with the program, not with the hardware or system arrangement.
Using Win 11, I have experienced RM Access violations when I select a person in the Index and then scroll thru names occasionally performing edits on people and then continuing to scroll. After doing this for many people an access violation occurs. I then terminate RM10 using Windows task manager and restart RM 10. I don’t know this error is related to your experience but it may be similar. I’ve observed this violation many times even in RM 8-9-10. It doesn’t seem to do it as much lately. It’s hard to recreate the issue I’ve experienced but it still happens occasionally.
Both the situations you all have described are what I like to call “RM getting tired”. It’s obviously not really getting tired. It’s just that after working in RM for a while, especially if you are doing the same sort of task over and over again, it will trigger an Access Violation Error. It’s repeatable in the broad sense that it always happens sooner or later. It’s not repeatable in the narrow sense that you can predict exactly when it’s going to happen.
I frequently get Access Violation Errors when using the back chevrons in Descendant View to move a person up a generation. It’s not 100% repeatable when I test, but just now it was 100% repeatable. One thing that helps it along to be repeatable is for the person first to be highlighted in People List View and then to switch to Descendant View. Another thing that helps it along to be repeatable is for the highlighted person in Descendant View to be a person without children or a spouse, and then to switch to Descendant View so they are the only person in the view. Then try to use the back chevron to move Descendant View up a generation.
I have always suspected memory leaks or some sort of communication failure between multiple threads where one thread is picking up a message from another thread and the message is not there anymore, or some combination of the two. My guess could obviously be way off. But at least in the my case of back chevrons in Descendant View, I don’t have to wait very long to get the problem. My main workaround is not to use the back chevrons in Descendant view. I have always suspected that the problem is not in the actual RM code, but rather is in some libraries that RM is using. Otherwise, I would expect that the problem would have been fixed by now. And this part of my guess also could obviously be way off.
This is a known problem since abt version 8.3-I was also deleting a lot of people and kept getting an argument out of range error-- usually abt every 40 minutes or somewhere between abt 670- 1000 clicks…
info from Support It’s very clear by your description that you are receiving the argument out of range error coming from the list manager. Development is working on this issue. It can take 100’s of clicks before you see it. While working in the index and deleting individuals the error is being triggered. Like you said it can be somewhere between 670-1000 clicks. This error will not damage your database at all. You will need to close RM after you receive this error to clear it. Otherwise you get meaningless errors, most often the access violations errors message. The biggest thing is it annoying, but not harmful. We appreciate your patience while development works through this issue.
So the work around was to shut down RM and restart before the error happened BUT as Mad Dog said , you can delete whole groups in RM 10-- haven’t tried it — I think I would try it on a test copy of your database to see what happens–also think I would make smaller groups at least at first instead of one great big group–just make sure to have a Back-up before you start and Back-up periodically…
My big deletions are done. I could set up a test of what you say but unless the devs are actively interested (from history it looks like they aren’t) there’s no point. And as I’m not the only one with the problem I think they can replicate it themselves. It doesn’t take “100’s of clicks”.
And even if grouping works, the average user would have no idea to do that - they’ll just slog through as I did, figuring that it must be “their system” since otherwise it would have been fixed long ago.
But thanks for your replies and trying to be helpful. You have more patience than I do with paid apps that are well over ten years old and still have serious bugs (and more minor shortcomings).
I disagree, if by putting people into a Group and it works, perfect work around. Don’t sell the average user short. (that’s fine, if you’re not inclined to do a Restore, create a Group, then Delete the people within it)
With the number of users who aren’t experiencing this, I see no urgency for the company to spend resources working on it.
Looking at the list of updates, one can get the focus of their work.
Then there are the future features (like DNA & Health) that we are not privy to but are probably being developed.
I don’t know what percentage of users experience this problem, but I do know that I experience this problem. So for me as a sample size of 1, that’s 100%.
As a retired IT person who supported a lot of software and who also developed a good bit of software, I’m very intolerant of bugs and of poor designs. I understand the balance between fixing bugs and developing new features, but bugs such as this one should not remain unattended. So I respectfully disagree with your disagreement.
I know it’s very frustrating for users who get this. I agree it should be fixed.
Retired IT here too, just pointing out that we aren’t in the loop on what they are working on. For all we know they are working on it and maybe can’t duplicate it or if they can haven’t come up with the solution.
You are doing different steps then the OP with same error. Is your error identical to his?
We should take a poll to see the # of users who get this. Going by past postings that I remember, it’s not a lot of them.
I get the Access Violation Error in one of two ways.
By using the left pointing chevrons in Descendant View to move a person down by a generation. Simple example: a person has no spouse or children and is in the primary position of Descendant View. I want to move to that person’s parents in Descendant View.
The “RM is tired” syndrome where I do the same function many times in a row over a long period of time. The most common example is deleting a lot of people, but it can happen with other repetitive activities. When I’m deleting a lot of people, I really do need to do the delete operations one person at a time because I need to make an individual decision about each person. There is not a good way for me to make a group of such people and then to delete the group. For example, I often am not able to decide whether to delete the parents in a family until I first delete the children to see what the family looks like after that. There is not way to do that when making a group.
Here is a screen shot of the left pointing chevron that frequently causes the error.
I suppose it’s a bad sign when you are replying to your own messages. But I just remembered than in many large software companies, the team that develops new features is a different team than the maintenance team that fixes software bugs. That separation of function makes sure there is always a resource available to work on fixing bugs.
I was never in that situation. I always had to fix my own bugs. And RM is a very small software company, and the development team also has to fix their own bugs. So the tension between developing new features and fixing old bugs is very real.
Yes, I spent 30+ years in SW development and maintenance. But after 3 major paid releases (RM 8-9-10), it appears this bug has been ignored for too long by the RM development person/group. A major reason to buy new releases is to receive sw maintenance. For me, skip the new features and fix the old bugs–please
That is exactly why I suggested putting each person you decide to delete into a group and then see what happens. Just doing trouble shooting remotely. The function to Delete everyone in a Group functions, but since I don’t get the AVE, I can’t test correctly.
Is the AVE error code the same each time for you? Is it identical as others?
And we have all sent the email without the attachment LOL
I might be a borderline IT guy having first used a computer in the 1960’s and extensively as an engineer and hobbyist. I hardly ‘use’ RM now as a genealogist ; only occasionally when checking a SQLite query or trying to help someone with a problem. I’ve experienced the errors and had suspicion that it’s related to array numbering.
Opened 4 different databases, tried to open # 5 even tho I know 4 is max.
Got msg only 4 can be simultaneously open.
Closed 1, File>Close (not X out of) and got AVE.
Sometimes I will have at most 2 open but usually just 1.
I would image that this is easily recreated by anyone with more than 4 databases.
Members should come up with a secret handshake now
NOT SURE @MadDog , I’ve EVER seen anybody so happy abt getting an access violation!!! BUT will pass on words of wisdom Renee once gave me-- now that you know how it happened–just DON’T do it again !!!
That said I started to open 5 databases —opened the 3rd database and got the Access Violation–closed down RM and have tried your method several times and it didn’t happen..
I’m NOT a retired IT person but have been having AVE since version RM 8.2.7.0–then I had multiple AVE a day-- now it’s just once in a while and no rhyme or reason–seems to happen on Mac and Windows–seems to happen on both 32 bit and 64 bit BUT I never had one on RM7 and never before RM 8.2.7.0
And that is probably why it hasn’t been fixed-- they can easily recreate the issue by following what we tell them BUT they can’t figure out the root cause
Turns out that I can replicate Access Violations all day with just two clicks :-). Below is a link to a video of it happening.
The database has about 350 people (not sure where that’s shown) and has been compacted, integrity checked, and phantom records removed (nothing was found). The database and the RM v10 app are on the same SSD on a vanilla Windows 10 x64 PC with no anti-malware other than Windows Defender.
