Those are the screens I use as well… But the only way I know to get to the Rearrange Spouses screen and the Rearrange Children screen is from the Info panel at the top of the side panel. Even though I know how to do it that way, I don’t find it easy or intuitive at all. Are you saying there is some easier way in RM10?
Well maybe @thejerrybryan – in this screenshot, I was on Sue Acorn-- used the arrow next to her Dad to highlight him-- then went to the PENCIL ICON and hit rearrange spouse or kids—can rearrange either from there even though only Sue and her mother show on this page with Dad…
Edit
Once he is highlighted, you can use any option on the page such as jump to Ancestry ( on a connected tree), use relationship chart, edit etc…
You can also right click on him and have options BUT NOT rearrange
Personally If I have add many people or families I would like just do “Arrange Spouse/Children” from tools menu – this does a double check in case I forgot something. Usually, I do it from the side panel. All those methods are mostly about personal workflow and what works best for the individual
Kevin
Confirming enhancement request to set the default tab in the Info Box has been reported to development.
1 Like
Confirming request to add or rearrange children or spouses on the sidebar Family tab has been reported to development.
@rzamor1 , both that and the one regarding rearranging & adding children on the sidebar would be improvements, but I’m not sure highlighting the spouses tab from the beginning will be as effective as either RM7’s Spouses tab or my suggestion for a visual name box as illustrated in my original post. Please keep it in mind. At a minimum, RM has gained insight into how we’re using the program and how we work.
That was also reported.
Emphasis on some of us use the program this way I find the current display more than acceptable and prefer it to the RM7 display. @rzamor1 please make development aware that not all agree with these requests. Perhaps there is a way to make some displays optional.
1 Like
This is a common and very sensible sentiment. It surely makes it difficult for the RM developers to know how best to respond.
No matter what the issue, there is a good probability (but not a 100% probability) that I’m going to prefer the RM7 display to the RM8/9/10 display. But I do prefer the RM8/9/10 display sometimes. And even when I prefer the RM7 display, I’m always aware that I am a sample size of one. And by the way, I do not want to be told that I’m just unwilling to change. I’m very willing to change, but only if the change meets my needs better than not changing. For example, I love the search boxes everywhere in RM8/9/10, and I prefer the new search mechanism to the old incremental search.
As a simple example of changes meeting or not meeting my needs, there were times in the RM8 Community Preview when the sidebar was on the right and there was not an option to place it on the left. I hated the sidebar on the right with the passion of 1000 suns. English reads left to right and I scan the computer screen left to right. Lots of software I use has some sort of sidebar-ish thingy on the left. Notwithstanding my sample size of one preference for the sidebar on the left, I realize that some significant number of RM users (perhaps a majority) prefer it on the right. So options are a good thing. But the options should be easy to find, should be easy to set, and should be well remembered. They shouldn’t constantly revert to the default if the default is not my preference.
3 Likes
Well said Jerry.
I stay with RM7 because the screen is clearer for aging eyes and RM7 meets the way I do data entry and sourcing. Also data entry is quicker and one rarely gets the myriad of program errors of the newer versions
However, I have always praised the fact that in RM of all versions, one could make suggestions for one’s own wants, and sometimes they were included in the next upgrade!
My opinion is that the newer features (for the way I research & large database) do not trump the loss of the intuitiveness of RM7, particularly to people beginning in genealogy research with little experience in both researching and learning to use a genealogy program for the first time. I do use RM10 to access the FamilySearch matches, then retype what I use to RM7. I may eventually move to a newer version, but I still believe the intuitive feature is still a loss even when I am confortable with the newer approach.
Perhaps in the future, the intuitiveness, can be reinstituted while keeping the new features others of you like and use… A new request?
Having options is good. Users can choose to see and do things the way it is most comfortable for them. Personally, I would like to see a choice of alternate names for "spouse, “husband” and “wife.” In today’s society not every family relationship consists of a legally “married” man and woman. Partner could be a good generic term, but having a choice to fit the circumstances would be good.
Another thought: as RWL points out, we may forget that there are multiple spouses and when creating a Pedigree or Descendent charts we may use the wrong spouse to include or perhaps more often, want to include more than one spouse and family in the chart. I may end up looking a little strange or messy, but would convey the real relationships in one chart rather than making multiple charts with different families.
Greetings to all on this chain. I am an RM10 user, recently moving over from RM7, and still trying to find user friendly ways to navigate and add/edit information. I live in the Family Window for adding and editing family details.
I agree with the users in this string that something must be done, especially for full spousal/children access, but would like to posit that simpler is better. What I liked most about the lead-up to the new RM8-9-10 rollout was the hints regarding ability to edit data at the point of discovery. While this is true in some panels/display options there is still work to do to reach the end zone, to use the unavoidable sports cliche!
I am looking for a simple, in-line method of switching between spouses that does NOT require changing focus to another sub-screen or family display option. After much research (including this trail) I am forced to accept that there is not one in the present version of RM10.
I, like some previous commenters in this trail, prefer the RM7 navigation in this respect as it was easy and direct. I have over 70,000 people entered and add several hundred more each month. The biggest time waster for me is stopping what I am doing and trying to find where/how to do things that I used to access via keyboard shortcut(s) in RM7.
Word to the Business Analysts at RM10: Less is More!
Am I correct in my assumption that the Info Panel is the same information as the EDIT panel would display in the FAMILY panel - albeit without the editing capability? If this is true then the addition of the Parents and Spouses tab in the Info Panel is poor navigation. I will maintain that the FAMILY panel should allow access and navigation to all branches and sub-branches of the selected person. There have been some novel ideas broached in this string about how to piecemeal some of this into the existing Family screen and/or changes to the Info Panel but these still leave the issues of adding/editing data by requiring too many key clicks, when compared to RM7.
Sorry to vent so long, my passion overrules my standard for brevity occasionally!
The sidebar has the Info panel at the top. You have the Details, Parents and Spouses tab. It will let you see more than just the Family View showed without opening the Edit Person screen. Below the Info box there is a Family tab. This will show you all the spouses, children, parents and siblings for the highlighted person. Click the arrow next to their name to switch to a different family member.
2 Likes
I’m with you on keeping the focus where I’m looking and not have to remember to look elsewhere. That was the intent of my original proposal with the 2nd (or more) spouse shown between the spouses at the top, although Jerry’s suggestion of the return of the spouse button might do the same thing. I just can’t picture where it was on the screen to know whether I’d like that as well despite the focused screen shots others have posted.
@RWL – this is a screenshot from RM 7—see the 1 next to Father and the 2 next to Mother-- that is the button-- when I click on 2 next to Mom, it shows both hubbies and you can click on either to go to him with her and kids if any…
I am not trying to be contrarian, am more hoping to point out this this is another grey area. Personally, I find the “Spouses” button in the RM10 family view index to be well done and easy to navigate (better than RM7 where I had to decipher icons).
If there is an issue at all, it’s my inexperience learning the new features of the index pane. No doubt age has something to do with it, as I often trip over how to update the view. As Jerry likes to say, I am a sample size of 1, however, I view this particular screen navigation as a learning curve that I am still climbing versus a design deficiency.
1 Like
I have been rereading this thread. Locations of birth and death is something that was there in RM7’s Family View which is gone from RM8/9/10. It’s worse than that, RM7’s Family View had birth and death dates. RM8/9/10’s Family View only has birth and death years.
I presently tend to use Descendant View set to 2 generations much more than I use Family View. That’s how bad the RM8/9/10 Family View has become for me. However, the thing that’s hugely missing from Descendant View is that it doesn’t show the spouses. Well, you can set it to 3 generations to get the spouses of the 2nd generation, but then you get the children of the 3rd generation. I need an option just to show the spouses of the 2nd generation without also getting the children of the 3rd generation. In general, the option would be to show the spouses of the rightmost generation without also adding an additional generation of children. The option should be settable directly on the Descendant View screen just like the number of generations is settable directly on the Descendant View screen.
If that could be done, then Descendant View set to 2 generations could be a very nice way to show families that would make immediately obvious when there was more than one spouse.
Yes, that assumption is correct.
I suspect that the concept was an attempt to reduce clickiness by making it possible to see all the information that’s in the Edit Person screen without the need to click into and out of the Edit Person screen. If so, then I would describe the concept as good in theory but bad in practice. I really have to click into and out of the Edit Person screen to be able to see a person’s Details in any practical sense. And I have to click in and out of the Edit Person screen even more in RM8/9/10 than I did in RM7 because RM7 at least showed me the full birth date and place, full death date and place, and full marriage date and place for the currently highlighted person with the marriage information being for the currently displayed spouse.
The way I typically use RM in practice is to have the bottom of the side panel set mostly to the Family Tab and with the divider bar between the top and bottom of the side panel set high to maximize the space available for the Family Tab. I therefore usually can’t see the Details in the side panel at all. Then I run the main view either as People List View or as Descendant View set to 2 generations. The Family tab in the side panel and Descendant View set to 2 generations gives me the visibility of spouses and other family members I need, and the People List View effectively provides the Index function. I’m doubtful that this is they way the developers intended that RM be used. But that’ the way I have had to change in order to adapt to the idiosyncrasies of the RM8/9/10 Family View and the RM8/9/10 side panel.
1 Like
The Descendant View is showing family groups by generation. If you want to show the spouses then you need to show the family. It’s just like RM7 showed the generations and families. The Family View has a child’s spouse showing as users had requested. On the Descendant View if you don’t want to see the children in a generation there is a collapsible button to the left of the spouse.
Jerry, what you describe are all the kludges you have to go through to make the program work for you. Indirectly it’s a commentary about the interface we all work with. I used a DOS genealogy program from circa 1996 until I finally bought RM7 when it said that it would come with the update to RM8 at no cost. [Yeah, I kept a DOS program going through Win 10 using DosBox - Sheepish grin] It’s hard to remember a whole lot about RM7 because I only used it several months - remember how RM8’s release was delayed an unexpectedly looooong time till the bugs were worked out - but I kind of remember at the time that RM8 was released that RM7 was simpler to get things done quickly. It’s not as though the newer generations of RM haven’t added some really useful functionality such as the improved search functionS and DNA / Medical conditions, but we’ve also lost some ease of use and speed of entry despite the intent of the programmers to make that better. There’s room on the current Family View to add back the date information you miss and make the additional spouses visible graphically, although you might have to scroll to see the 12 or more children that some couples had. The ability to turn those features off or on would be a plus.