Getting Frustrated

RootsMagic
1

Just updated to RM11.
Have a previous version file that opened correctly.
Since I installed RM11 to a new drive (H:\), the images in the Media folder all came up with red “x’s”. There weren’t any media files in the Media folder. Fine.

In ‘Settings/Folders’, I set the ‘Media folder’ to H:\RootsMagic - 2026\Media. From watching the RM videos on YT, that’s what I was supposed to do.

I have backups of all my past data, including Media files. Went through them all (400+), renaming to better systemize as well as keeping the file paths within Window’s length limitations; and I put them all into a folder I created under the RootsMagic11 directory (H:\RootsMagic - 2026). That folder is named ‘Primary Repository of Images’ (path: H:\RootsMagic - 2026\Primary Repository of Images). It’s where I was accumulating the images prior to putting them into RM11.

I wanted to ‘add’ all of the media files in one stroke. RM wouldn’t let me; it apparently only allows ‘one-up’ imports. (Very Strange…) Don’t really fancy adding 450 images one-at-a-time, so I tried the ‘Drop New Media” option under ‘Add Media’. It appeared to work. 450+ files were then copied into the Media folder.

PROBLEM #1 IS: For some reason, even though I set the ‘Media Folder Path’ in ‘Settings’ as aforementioned (H:\RootsMagic - 2026\Media), when I went to link one of the Media Files to a record, it failed. It was looking in the ‘H:\RootsMagic - 2026\Primary Repository of Images. WHY? I HAVE NO CLUE…

PROBLEM 2 IS: Going by what you stated in your YT video, Fixing Broken Media Links in RootsMagic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--QjBtpJeis), all that RM does is follow the path to find the Media Files’; which makes sense. So, I double-checked my Settings, and they were correct, but RM11 is still trying to look in the wrong folder.

PROBLEM 3 IS: The only way I can get the image files out of the ‘Media folder’ is to go to Windows Explorer, open the Media folder, Select All, and DELETE. (None of this seems to be well covered in the instructions.)

Please understand, I’ve been in IT for 40+ years, retiring a few years ago. In that time, I turned-around failing IT companies, eventually owning three of my own which developed data-based apps and projects, wrote them, tested them, implemented them, supported them; built database structures, security, testing; created fairly large commercial websites; designed/built hardware & network systems, installed, supported them. I can admit, “I’m not new to any of this technology you are using. I’m just not seeing answers nor adequate instructions of the details of the operation of RM.

How do I fix this mess?

2

If you renamed all you media then the links would be broken, and fix broken media links won’t fix that. Did you delete all the media in the media gallery before you added them again through drop media? After dropping all the media into the media gallery are you using select existing media to create the links? I just want to understand the starting proint.

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3

this might be a little confusing

image
image841×577 22.1 KB

if they are NOT FOUND – one of three things:

  • File(s) deleted
  • File(s) renamed
  • files moved somewhere else

if most of the files are broken media links and do not have the same (File) name – that fix is not easy withing the RM interface (there may be external ways). Since you seem to have a decent background with databases – that might an option – but this method is not supported or recommended by RM team. (This would involve Sqlite) – regardless of what fixed you attempt make sure you keep backups

adding

4

Your files on your computer are NEVER touched (ie. copied/moved/edited) by RootsMagic. INSTEAD it makes a tiny thumbnail “copy” for each that You “link” and displays them under a Media MENU item (it is not a folder) as placeholders and visual aids. Those thumbs are stored directly IN the database along with the filepath.

If you move/rename/delete the files on your storage… RM marks the thumbnail with red X’s and lists (Broken Link) and !Media file not found! messages.

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5

The way the "Media Folder’ setting actually works is trickier than it sounds. I think I can explain, but to do the explanation justice, I would need to know three things. 1) exactly where were your media files located before you moved or copied them to the H: drive? 2) exactly what was your “Media Folder” setting in RM before you moved our copied your media files? 3) exactly when did you rename your media files as compared to when you moved or copied them to the H: drive

I’m not trying to be evasive about the answer, but it really does depend on a lot of factors. If you set up a media folder before you add any media, if you put all your media files in that folder (which can have subfolders), if you never rename your media files, and if you never move your media files, then everything is ok.

Renaming your media files after linking them into RM is always a killer. Moving or copying your media files to a new location and adjusting your ‘Media folder’ at the same time usually works fine, but there are details that can go wrong. Hence my questions.

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yes :slight_smile: and much easier to “mess” things up than one might think.
(even if you simply thought you had copied all your files but you did not actually do all files/sub-folders etc) the basic windows file explorer may not always do the best job depending

7

I understand all that.

Again:

  1. The path in ‘Settings’ is not being followed. Instead, RM is looking at the temporary (work in progress) folder I accumulated the files in to be able to (a) edit them in Photoshop, (b) research them further, (c) confirm authenticity; all in preparation for moving them to the Media folder, which is the folder set in settings as the proper location for them.

  2. And yes, with my background and experience, it appears to me that no matter what the path in Settings, and given the app insists on NOT following that setting, my guess is that the app is not re-indexing, (a very simple, easy to write snipit or module). But then again, I don’t do that discovery without being paid for it. I still work even though I’m retired, and all the time I spend (for free) on this is lost billable time; not to mention, a complete reduction in my enjoyment of doing genealogy.

”If” in fact re-indexing “is” the problem, I’m wondering why by the time the app has gone to it’s 11th iteration, this basic database function hasn’t been fixed. That makes me think that then again, it may not be the problem. (BTW, it is running on a PC workstation running Win11 Pro-current updates applied, with a ton of ram, and 12Tb of storage. The possibility of lacking hardware resources is for all practical purposes, ‘non-existent’. No other apps (and there are many) on the station are malfunctioning, not a one.

  1. The worst part is, when you need questions answered, there is little-to-know documentation. When I searched YT for a ‘fix’ to this issue, the RM vid was 12 years old. Why hasn’t that been taken down and replaced? I have my opinion, but just the fact that that is the case, lessens my trust in the app: I pay for apps. When I do so, I expect them to be ‘User-Facing’, intuitive, employing industry-standard UX/UI, and with in-app help. It appears that some app developers are of the opinion that genealogy is a ‘hobby for old people’. It isn’t. It’s a time-consuming, intelligence-requiring, potentially-rewarding adventure, no matter the practitioners age.

I’m ‘off my soapbox’ with that said. The waste of time and increasing frustration has reached the height of my nostrils, and I simply can’t afford to invest any more. Me thinks my time better spent seeking out an actual professional genealogy application. I don’t mind paying for such, and was of the opinion that RM was that choice. Silly me. I’ll see if a refund is available. Either way, I’ve paid enough.

With my lifelong experience, I discovered early that premium costs, where provable, are well-worth the investment. Every time I use quality products, they run smoothly, productively, as compared to spending my time seeking out insight from fellow users who are here for the same reason(s): “The app is a cake that still hasn’t finished baking”.

8

I understand that also. I included that tidbit in my efforts; all of which have worked for decades in other troubleshooting efforts, but not with this app.

IT STILL DOESN’T WORK. I’VE WATCHED ALL OF THE RELEVANT VIDS BY BUSBEE.

9

A) It shouldn’t be “trickier”….

Why would anyone writing an app include “trickier” when the industry has produced compliant tools and code years ago?

What you asked for:

  1. Exactly where were your media files located before you moved or copied them to the H: drive?

They were on a historical backup drive from a previous workstation, one that ran Win10 prior to retirement. They were backed up using Bvckup2 (https://bvckup2.com/), an app I’ve used for over 8 years without issue. It maintains file integrity as compared to other BU apps that triffle with files in the backup process and require the BU app in order to restore. Bvckup2 doesn’t do that. It is extremely well written and the backup files are easily addressed and can be simply copied to wherever one wants them to be.

In this case, I installed that historical drive to my current workstation and copied the images, pdfs, WORD docs, et al, to the H:\RootsMagic - 2026\Primary Repository of Images folder.

  1. Exactly what was your “Media Folder” setting in RM before you moved our copied your media files?

Don’t recall; given nowhere to be found were specific instructions as to those requirements.

  1. Exactly when did you rename your media files as compared to when you moved or copied them to the H: drive?

They were renamed while being worked on in the ‘Primary Repository of Images’ folder. As I previously stated, the edits included renaming so as to conform to Microsoft path length requirements; as well as knowing that those files would eventually be moved/imported into the Media folder.
(In NTFS file formats and MS standards, when files are moved only the file name is kept, not the original path. In RM, it appears that ‘maybe’, the path comes with the file name. It that is the case, ridiculous. The file and it’s assigned name are independent of the path or previous location.

Restating:

When I updated to RM11, and looked in the ‘Media’ via the left menu, all the images had red-X’s, and there was nothing in that folder. The path in ‘Settings’ was pointed to the ‘Primary Repository of Images’ folder. Given that that folder was only for editing purposes and all the files in it would be moved on to the ‘Media’ folder, it was obvious that that path was incorrect; so I changed it to H:\RootsMagic - 2026\Media in ‘Settings/Folders’.

That had no effect. With making that path change, from decades of experience, I would have expected the app to reset itself and when the “Media’ option in the left-hand menu was chosen, to show a vacant folder or no content. But it didn’t. So, I shutdown the app (a well-used effort in many poorly written apps), and restarted it. Again, it still showed the files with red-X’s.

So, to remove the icons (knowing they were only icons and not actual files), I had to select each individually instead of as a group, and delete them. Then I tried to add a test file via: Media/Add/using the drop-down for ‘Filename’. That failed. Given failed, I restarted the app again, hoping that would do a reset & re-index of the database with respect to the Media listing. Nope. Didn’t help. Given that, and with few other options available (mainly because the documentation is woefully lacking, I tried the logical option looking at the path again, and it had reverted back to the path ending with the ‘Primary Repository of Images’. Since I can find no videos, no docs, no help references dealing with this, I tried resetting the path again to have it look for the images in the ‘Media’ folder. Result: Nada.

At that point, I had wasted three hours on this issue ONLY. That’s over $1K of billable time for me. I can’t afford to be a test bench for someone else who is charging me for an application that is incomplete.

Do you understand my position???

10

Yes, I finally deleted all the media in the media folder when all else failed, as it seemed the worst choice (from experience), but only one available, given the help sections don’t cover this, and the YT vid is 12 years old and with all probability is inaccurate with respect to v.11.
Remember, in RM11, to “drop all the media into the media gallery (folder), one can only do so one image/file at a time. With 400+ such ‘images’, we’re talking days of monotonous, repetitive, error-prone, finger-numbing work. There is NO OPTION in the app to ‘Select All’ and do a batch ‘Add’. That’s why I did a test-run with a single file, and that failed as well.
I then removed that file and icon, so as to try a different approach: I copied and pasted the test file from the ‘Primary Repository of Images folder to the ‘Media’ folder: FAIL!

Likewise, in RM11, as I’m looking at the screen now as well, there is no way to ‘select existing media’ to specifically create links, I’m not seeing such an option. Are you seeing something I am not?

In RM11, I’m not seeing any of the options you are mentioning":
”Did you delete all the media in the media gallery before you added them again through drop media?”

The only thing I haven’t tried is the Tools/Database Tools/Rebuild indexes. I’m of the assumption that this app is compliant with existing database methods that when something such as a file rename or change in directory, that the app would automatically perform a re-indexing based on its own internal criteria selection.
Silly me for thinking such….

Can’t put much more into this. It’s beyond …… fill in the blank. Genealogy is not that complicated with respect to these applications, if you are following established database practices, and assuming one has chosen and is using an appropriate database product.
I have a NoKings Demonstration to get to. If you have an answer, please share it. Otherwise, I’ll be on my way to search out an app that actually works without undocumented fixes, work-arounds, tricks, and band-aids.

11

I understand that.
There’s not adequate documentation specific to this version, and therefore accurate as how to deal with this issue.
I am not the only person experiencing it.

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12

That likely is a fair point that they do not update the help docs as things change.

13

Let me give an overall overview of how media links in RM really work.

First of all, for any media downloaded from Ancestry using TreeShare, the media goes into one big folder called dbname_media. So if your database was called SmithFamily, then the media folder for any media downloaded from Ancestry using TreeShare is SmithFamily_media. RM creates this folder for you. It puts the media files in the folder for you. It names the media files for you with meaningless file names. The media files are linked into RM for you. And there are no subfolders. If you move your database to a new location and if you move the dbname_media folder along with the database, the media files downloaded from Ancestry using TreeShare will still work perfectly.

All media files not downloaded from Ancestry using TreeShare work in a completely different way. For example, I download media files from Ancestry directly and without using TreeShare. So all my files work this completely different way, no matter if I download them from FamilySearch or from Ancestry or from any other Web site. And no matter if I scan paper documents or if I take photos with my smart phone, all such media files work this completely different way.

The completely different way is that RM links media files into RM using relative file paths, and the relative file paths are determined at the time you link the files into RM. There is no automatic indexing per se if you move the media files somewhere else. That is why RM users occasionally discover that all their media files have a big red X. They have moved the media files somewhere else. There can be safe ways to move media files without getting any big red X’s, but to do so you need to understand how RM’s relative file paths work.

Let’s assume that you start using RM without setting a default value for your media folder. Linking your documents into RM will still work just fine. RM will first try to set a file path for the files relative to your Documents folder. For files not in your documents folder, RM will set a file path relative to your C: drive or whichever drive contains your files at that time. On a Mac, I’m not as sure. If a Mac has an equivalent of the Document folders in Windows, I suspect that RM will try to set the path relative to that folder. Otherwise, RM will set the path relative to the root folder of the disk that contains the media file.

Now suppose you realize that you should have set up a default media folder and that you proceed to do so. For files linked into RM after that, RM will try to make the relative path be relative to the default media folder. For files linked into RM that are not in the default media folder, RM will try to make the path relative to the Documents folder. And for files neither in the default media folder nor in the Documents folder, RM will make the relative path be relative to the root folder of the disk containing the file.

As long as you never move any files or folders around and as long as you never rename any files or folders and as long as you never change your default media folder after setting it for the first time, this should continue to work forever without any red X’s. But if you actually do any of those things, you are likely to get red X’s. And in fact, you could have files in your default media folder that were linked into RM before you set your media folder option and other files in your default folder that we linked into RM after you set your media folder option, and they will both still work. That’s because the media files from before you set the default media folder will still have a relative media path that is relative to either your Documents folder or relative to the RM’s default media folder. Either way, the path still works.

But if you make any of those changes, you will get red X’s. Just to summarize, the change could be renaming files or folders, the change could be moving files or folders, or the change could be changing RM’s default media folder a second time after setting it for the first time. As I said, there is no automatic re-indexing. The closest thing to automatic re-indexing is to run the Fix All Broken Media Links tool.

In a perfect world, you would create a media folder for all your RM media before you start running RM. You would also set that as your default media folder in RM before you starting adding media files. Under those exact circumstances, you could move that one RM media folder and all its files and subfolders to some other location on the same disk or on a different disk, you could then change RM’s default media folder to point to the new location. Under that exact scenario, there would be no red X’s. Under any other scenario, red X’s are likely. For example (and to repeat myself), if you link some of your media files into RM before setting up the default media folder, any of those files will have read X’s if you move them, even if you adjust your default RM media folder at the same time. That’s because those early files will not have paths set relative to the default media folder.

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14

there are pros & cons to have default path vs “code” path of each media. The default path essentially codes “?” as path vs most everything gets the full path when linked. This happen behinds the scenes

15

The folder path that You chose in Settings>Folders>Media folder has NOTHING to do with red X’s/NOT FOUND process. It represents one (and only one) thing. It represents the DEFAULT folder that RM will ask Windows (or Mac) to open the very first time the Media file-picker icon is clicked. That icon will continue to trigger opening to that DEFAULT folder UNTIL you use the file-picker to go to ANY OTHER FOLDER and ADD a media item. RootsMagic THEN employs an “assistive” MRU (most recently used) “folder-tracking” approach to remember what folder you are currently working from to add media items (instead of inefficiently opening you back at that dang DEFAULT folder EVERY time you wish to use the file-picker). That’s it ~ that’s all that is. That’s all it does… UNTIL you close out that database. If you do, then reopen, it starts that same DEFAULT folder followed by MRU “folder-tracking” functionality.

You said you understand the rest (about the thumbnails and filepaths). No hurt feelings whether you stay or move on. Except for moderator rzamor1… we’re all just users of the program sharing what we think we know, to be helpful. Cheers ~

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16

Good explanation – I really only use drag n drop method too add media (95% of time) or to add additional links so I really had not noticed all of those details.

Kevin

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17

The folder path actually represents more than that.

Prior to RM8, RM stored two data items that were used to locate media files. One item was the folder, including the complete folder path. The other item was the file name. For example, suppose I had a marriage record in my RM media folder stored as follows (and pardon the long length of my folder path - there actually is a method behind the madness):

C:\Users\jbryan\Dropbox\mybackup\aalevel2\mywebpages\rm_media\marriages\bryan_elmer_o_and_hazel_gertie_henry_marriage.jpg

Prior to RM8, the complete folder path would have been stored as follows:

C:\Users\jbryan\Dropbox\mybackup\aalevel2\mywebpages\rm_media\marriages\

Prior to RM8, the file name would have been stored as follows:

bryan_elmer_o_and_hazel_gertie_henry_marriage.jpg

The pre-RM8 system was a very simple system. And in that system, the comment I quoted about “Settings>Folders>Media folder has NOTHING to do with red X’s/NOT FOUND process” was 100% correct. That system was a very good system up to a point. The point was where you might be running RM on two different computers and the file path on the two computers might be different. For example, the Windows userid might be different on the two computers. Or you might be using an external hard disk for your RM media files and the drive letter on one computer for the external hard drive was D:\ and one the other computer the drive letter was E:\

As a result, RM8 through RM11 now support relative file paths. That means that in RM8 through RM11, the same two items are stored as follows:

Folder path: ?\marriages
File name: bryan_elmer_o_and_hazel_gertie_henry_marriage.jpg

So RM is no longer storing the complete folder path to each file. Instead, RM stores a “?” as a part of the file path. And what does the “?” mean? Well, well the “?” is replaced by the setting from Settings>Folders>Media folder. That may seem like a very convoluted way to do things, but it is perfect for users who run RM on two different computers and where the file paths may not be the same on both computers. All such users have to do is to set Settings>Folders>Media folder correctly on each computer.

You as the user never see the “?”, and for the most part this system works completely transparently. The exception where it doesn’t work transparently is if you change Settings>Folders>Media folder and if there are already files linked into your RM database based on the previous setting of Settings>Folders>Media folder. In that case, you can get a lot of red X’s.

Even if you are not using two computers, this system can work to your advantage. Suppose you simply want to change the location or name of your RM media folder or the name of any subfolder in its path. You can simply do so and at the same time you can change the setting of Settings>Folders>Media folder. That will not result in any red X’s.

The red X’s therefore can arise if you change the setting ofSettings>Folders>Media folder without having having changed the location or name of your RM media folder or the name of any subfolder in its path to match. Or vice versa, the red X’s can arise if you change he location or name of your RM media folder or the name of any subfolder in its path without changing the setting of Settings>Folders>Media folder to match.

I have omitted a discussion of when when a file you are linking into RM is not in your Settings>Folders>Media folder but is in your Documents folder. It works the same way, except the secret code that is used is “~” rather than “?”, but the concept is the same. Again, this is transparent and you never see the “~”. You can change the location of your Documents folder, but most users never do so. Again, this can come into play when you are running RM on two computers and the Documents folder may be in a different location on two computers. And I have omitted a discussion of when a file was linked into RM via a download from TreeShare. This time the secret code that is used is “*”, and this secret code means the file is stored in the dbname_media folder where “dbname” is the name of your RM database.

I sometimes wonder if users who are only ever going to run RM on one computer might be better off just leaving Settings>Folders>Media folder blank. If you did so, the folder paths would be stored with the secret code “~” if they were in the Documents folder and all the way back to the drive letter (Windows) or the disks root folder (Mac) if they were not in the Documents folder. But the thing you would lose would be the the DEFAULT folder that RM will ask Windows (or Mac) to open the very first time the Media file-picker icon is clicked. So in that sense, there is value in setting the Settings>Folders>Media folder option correctly.

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18

I’m not near my computer, but if my recollection serves me right, isn’t the FULL “folder” path always stored for all media files added that are NOT stored in the DEFAULT folder’s “relative” path (when added) and only those added from folders that ARE “relative” to the SETTINGS path DEFAULT …get stored in the database (hidden from the user) with the ?/path/to/filename (? representing a shorthand for the Media folder chosen in SETTINGS)?

I even think I remember RM7 as using a ~/path/to/filename construct in a similar fashion. I’m with son’s family on an outing and might check later to see if I’m crazy.

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In RM7, the full path was always stored. Well, I’m not sure about the files downloaded from Ancestry via TreeShare because I don’t use TreeShare that way. But for sure, the full path was always stored otherwise.

In RM8 through RM11, there are four possibilities.

  1. Downloaded from Ancestry via TreeShare: stored with an * as the path.
  2. Not #1 and in RM’s media folder path at the time of the link: stored with a ? as the path, plus any additional subfolders below the folder settings path.
  3. Not #1 and not #2 and in the Documents folder path at the time of the link: stored with ~ as the path, plus any additional subfolders below the Documents folder.
  4. Not #1 and not #2 and not #3: stored with the full path as the path, just like RM7.

The “at the time of the link” condition is important. If RM’s media folder path or the Documents folder path is changed after the file is linked into RM, the reindexing of the file to the new RM media folder path or the new Documents folder path is not automatic.

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20

You saved me having to check later, Thanks!
So, the “wording” of your reply -sounded- absolute ( -no- full paths), but rather… RM -does- store full filepaths (when needed). I’m only “dimming”, not crazy yet.~

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