Excessive Clickiness When Refreshing a Group and Suggested Solutions

I note that there is a similar request that has already been made. It’s not quite the same, but it’s similar. It may be found at Group Refresh Button

I have made two videos. The first video is about how there is too much clickiness associated with refreshing a group. The second video is a bigger picture of what I think is causing the excessive clickiness and some proposed solutions.

Excessive Clickiness Refreshing Groups 4:38

Bigger Picture of Causes and Some Possible Solutions 8:59

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Confirming enhancement requests have been reported to development.

Sounded like you really wanted the Edit Group button on the sidebar Group tab to be available on the People page. If you just had the Group tab as a button it would bring up quick groups, with those other buttons. I submitted it with wanting the Edit Group button next to the Home button.

It’s perhaps a matter of terminology, but I wanted three things.

  1. The main Groups icon moved completely out of the sidebar and next to the Home button. This would make easy access to editing groups available to all People views - Pedigree View, Family View, Descendant View, People List View, Couple List View, and Association View. It’s already the case that the main Groups icon is available to all six of the people views. There are two advantages to moving the Groups icon. It’s not just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. One advantage is that it reduces the number of clicks to edit groups by two clicks. Going into editing groups, there is no longer the additional click on the pencil icon. And going out of editing groups, there is no longer the second click to restore the sidebar to its original tab. The other advantage is that the sidebar is no longer disturbed in the first place.
  2. A one click Refresh icon which is specific to People List view which is right next the name of the group which is being used to filter People List view. The one click Refresh icon would only appear when People List view is being filtered by a group and only when that group is a criterion group that can be refreshed.
  3. An indicator of the number of people in the group which is specific to People List view and which would appear only when the People LIst view was being filtered by a group.


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There is also a bug that needs to be fixed. When a group is refreshed and the People List view is filtered by the group, the People List view is not updated to reflect the newly refreshed group. I’m using the word “refreshed” advisedly here because it doesn’t matter if you refresh a criterion group which can be refreshed somewhat automatically or whether you are using a freeform group that needs to be refreshed manually. In neither case is People List view updated after the group is refreshed. Instead, it’s necessary to switch to another people view such as Family View and then to switch back to People List view to get People List view to be updated.

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If followed through, at the very least, the group button should be to the right of the home button. The Home button should be the most visible and accessible on that top menu line.

I agree. But apparently my reply has to be at least 20 characters, so I agree again. :grinning:

I agree that a refresh button on a filtered view to refresh that view would be nice, but I am not sure what that has to do with moving the Group icon off the index to a position next to the home button. (Other than your personal preference to maintain the family view.) Doing so loses the view of the groups that a person belongs to. A valuable view that has been noted in other discussions as seeing the list from the Edit person screen can get truncated when in multiple groups.

It appears from your mockup page that you are requesting this button only on the People list view. That’s a page I rarely use. A better option, in my opinion, would be a new Group tab on the side menu. In that view, all groups could be shown with columns to Add, Edit or Refresh the groups, including a detail column to show the present count of the group with the ability to jump to the people in that group.

@rzamor1 And I would request that the group icon remain as is in the Index panel.

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I really like you response. It provides some good perspectives that I hadn’t considered. For example, I had assumed that if my proposed change were made, users would simply view the group a person belonged to from inside the Edit Person screen. But I certainly see the value of seeing the list of groups for a person in the sidebar. How would you feel about the following?


In other words, the Groups tab would still be in the sidebar and it would still show the list of groups that a person belongs to. But it would no longer have the + icon and the Pencil icon that cause the excess clickiness I’m talking about.

But without the + and Pencil icons, how would you get to the main Edit Group screen? Well, you would still add a one click Edit Group icon next the the Home icon as previously described. It would get you to the main Edit Group screen without disturbing the sidebar contents. So you could click on the Groups icon in the sidebar to see the groups that a person belongs to. Doing so would disturb the sidebar contents. And you could click the Groups icon next to the Home icon to go directly to the main Edit Group screen with one click without disturbing the sidebar contents if you chose that instead.

For that matter, if there were a one click Groups icon next the the Home icon that would go straight to the main Edit Group screen without disturbing the sidebar, I wouldn’t even care if the + icon and Pencil icon stayed on the Groups sidebar screen. I simply wouldn’t use those icons and I would be happy with the Groups icon next to the Home icon.

There is also the question of what connection there might be between the proposed move of the Groups icon from the sidebar to being next the the Home icon instead on the one hand and the addition of a Refresh icon next the group name in People List View on the other hand. You are correct that there is no direct connection between the two. The only thing they have in common is that both proposals would reduce the clickiness associated with managing groups. Reducing the clickiness associated with managing groups is the big picture I was trying to get at.

Finally, I’m not interested in maintaining the Family tab in the sidebar per se. I recognize that most users run the sidebar with the Index tab. I do use the Index tab in the sidebar sometimes, and when I do I’m just as interested in maintaining it as I am in maintaining the Family tab when that’s the one I’m using. So what I’m interested in is being able to manage groups while still maintaining the sidebar, no matte what is in the sidebar. I don’t want the extra click of putting the sidebar back the way it was after managing groups.

But then you would have to move your mouse to a new position up the page. Much easier to keep the Add and Edit buttons where they are. Clicking the Add button in the Index brings you directly to the Add New Group box, which is certainly easy enough. I don’t see the value in adding a new button next to the Home button. For a page with added information about the existing groups such as count and the opportunity to add, edit, delete, rename existing groups, I think a separate tab gives more real estate.

I think we have pretty well beaten this one to death. :grinning:

I already mentioned that if the existing Groups icon were left in place in the sidebar in addition to adding a Groups icon next to the Home icon, I would no objection at all to leaving the + and Pencil icons with the Groups icon in the sidebar. I just wouldn’t use them. I would use the Groups icon next to the Home button instead. To me, that’s much cleaner and it’s definitely fewer clicks. There would be no extra click of the + or Pencil icon and I would be in the Groups management screen immediately and there would be no extra click to restore the sidebar.

The extra click I most object to is the click after finishing up with Group management to restore the sidebar to its previous status of Index tab or Family tab. You can’t just dismiss the Group management screen and be back where you are. You have to take the additional step of manually restoring the sidebar.

I don’t understand the comment about extra real estate. The Group management screen is a popup window. That’s a really good thing. It’s especially better than if it was a slide in panel. Being a popup window is what gives the Group management screen its extra real estate. RM’s slide in panels often suffer from lack of real estate. The Groups management screen would be the exact same popup window with the exact same real estate if it were invoked from a new Groups icon that was next to the Home icon or if it were invoked from the existing Groups tab in the sidebar. For that matter, I would be satisfied if I could get to the Groups management screen from some sort of right click or hot key - just anything would not require me to choose between the + icon and the Pencil icon and that would not disturb the sidebar and require me to restore the side bar after dismissing the Groups management screen.

By the way, I do very much like the new Groups management screen that came in with the refreshable groups feature. It’s much better than the previous RM8 and RM9 Groups management screen, and it’s much better than the old RM7 Groups management screen. I just don’t like how you get into it and then get back out of it.