What’s the latest advice on how to use OneDrive for backups? Has it changed for RM10 or still a risk of corruption if accessing the file from OneDrive ?
You will never have an issue saving the backup (.rmbackup) to the cloud. It’s only working on the database file (.rmtree) there that will cause problems.
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If by “backup”, you mean using RM to make a backup file via File > Backup, then that process creates a file with an RMBACKUP extension that’s completely safe to store in OneDrive or any other cloud synced service.
If by “backup”, you mean storing the RM database itself in OneDrive so that that a copy will be made for you in the cloud, that process continues to be inherently unsafe in RM10 and can cause corruption. Your main RM database has an RMTREE extension, and it is the RMTREE files that are inherently unsafe to store in OneDrive or any other cloud synced service. For that matter, they are inherently unsafe to sync even on a home network or to be backed up by Time Machine on a Mac.
By the way, users will sometimes talk about keeping their RM database “on their hard disk” or “in the cloud”. Well, your RM database is always “on your hard disk” while you are using it. If your RM database is stored in OneDrive, it’s not like every key stroke you do in RM is transmitted to the cloud for action or anything like that. RM itself is always working totally locally. It’s just that the OneDrive software is making a second copy of your RM database in the cloud, with the primary copy being kept locally.
Well, it’s a bit more subtle than that. OneDrive has an option called Files On- Demand that has an option called Free up disk space that is turned on by default. If that is your situation, then the copy of your RM database on your local hard disk is not really on your local hard disk except when you are actually using RM. That means that you can’t use RM if the your Internet service is down and it means that you are totally depending on OneDrive to keep a copy of your data. I don’t trust OneDrive or any such service to have the only copy of my data. For that reason, I strongly recommend turning off the the Free up disk space option in OneDrive so that you always have a copy of your RM database on your local hard drive. Dropbox has the same option, but it defaults in the other direction so by default your files are both in Dropbox and on your local hard disk at all times,
The official recommendation is to store your RM database itself in a folder which is not synced, and to store your RM backup files in a folder that is synced or that is otherwise backed up. But there are numerous variations on this theme. For example, you can store your RM database itself in a folder which is synced, and pause the syncing service while you are using RM.
Some users will seek to avoid this problem by storing their RM database in a removable hard drive rather than on their computer’s main drive. In my view, this can actually make the overall problem worse when it comes to having a good backup. In my experience, users tend to understand that their computer’s main drive needs to be backed, but they tend to forget that a removable hard drive also needs to be backed up when it is used as the primary storage for their data. Removable hard drives are good things, and I use them myself. But I think they are most effective when you use your computer’s main drive for your primary storage and when you use removable hard drives as a part of your backup plan.
As for me, I do keep my RM database in OneDrive and I pause OneDrive when I’m using RM. So strictly speaking, I’m in violation of the official recommendation. But I feel safe because of pausing OneDrive when I’m using RM. I keep my RM backup files in Dropbox, and Dropbox doesn’t need to be paused to create RM’s backup files. That way, I have copies of my RM data in both OneDrive and Dropbox. I also make copies of my RM database on removable hard drives. I have two removable hard drives that I swap back and forth between my house and my daughter’s house, so that if my house burns down at least one of the removable hard drives is not in my house.
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This is the same method I use (except) both hard drives are in my house (not the best way in event of fire/flood etc)
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Kev: suggest you use a real backup cloud service like iDrive (very cheap) rather than a sharing service like Onedrive or Dropbox.
Jerry: I have never seen a problem with Time machine mac backup for any file or program. I run one external drive on continuous (~ hourly), another every 10 days when connected and an iDrive cloud backup done nightly and as files change.
I’m sure that’s true. That doesn’t mean it’s safe.
I’m not a Mac user, but I have researched Time Machine and SQLite pretty extensively. I’m aware that Time Machine does a temporary lock on a disk drive when it is backing it up. But I would summarize the problem as being that Time Machine has no way to know when an SQLite database is in a safe state when it does the backup. So it has no way to know when it is safe to do the lock. Therefore, it can do a backup when SQLite is in the middle of an update operation. It certainly appears to me that Time Machine is extremely robust and safe for files that are opened at the beginning and saved at the end. But SQLite files are updated continuously, which is the root of the problem.
The following is a short summary from ChatGPT, but much more info is available from Google searches. SQLIte forums are probably the best place to look. The disadvantage of Google searches is that the information is not as well summarized as it is with ChatGPT.
-------- from ChatGPT
Time Machine on a Mac is generally safe for most files, including SQLite databases — but with important caveats.
Why there’s a concern:
SQLite databases are single-file databases that are actively read and written to by applications. If Time Machine tries to back up a .sqlite file while it’s being modified, it can capture a corrupt or inconsistent snapshot of the database.
Key risks:
Inconsistent backups: The backup may occur in the middle of a write operation, making the copy unusable or corrupt.
Increased disk I/O contention: Time Machine can introduce minor delays or contention during the copy process if the SQLite file is busy.
Invisible issues: You might not notice the corruption until you try to restore and use the backup.
Best practices to stay safe:
Use journaling modes in SQLite:
WAL (Write-Ahead Logging) is better at surviving abrupt interruptions.
However, WAL mode actually splits data across the main .sqlite, .sqlite-wal, and .sqlite-shm files, so Time Machine must back up all three consistently.
Exclude live databases from Time Machine:
Exclude actively-used SQLite databases from backup (System Settings > Time Machine > Options > Exclude), and:
Use a scheduled process (cron, launchd, etc.) to copy the database to a backup-safe location periodically (e.g., when not in use or after being closed).
Use sqlite3 .dump:
For critical databases, back them up using the SQLite CLI:
sqlite3 your.db .dump > backup.sql
This creates a consistent, portable snapshot of the database in plain text.
Use app-level exports if available:
Many apps (e.g., messaging, accounting, browsers) use SQLite behind the scenes. If you can export their data using the app’s UI, it’s safer than relying on raw database files.
Summary:
Time Machine is not ideal for actively-used SQLite databases unless:
They're idle or closed during backup,
Or you're backing up exported copies or .dump files instead.
If you need reliable, restorable backups of important databases, supplement Time Machine with database-aware backup strategies.
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Agree. Just like with OneDrive or google drive, Time machine can be configured to include the default folder for backups and exclude RM database folders.
… and the advantage is that one can examine the source.
Not even to mention how unlikely it is, that somehow Apple has implemented some super extra juju that competitors haven’t discovered or aren’t working on. Fanboi-ism is a right and I have nothing bad to say about rights, but that doesn’t make your idol always right in their forays. Just sayin’
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my main 1 TB OneDrive is free for life (also have a 2nd personal one 200gb that about $20 per year. This the free version was a nice “present” from college for being Alumni Graduate.
(2 degrees 2013 & 2017).
AI summary by a 3rd party program with old data and unknown logic is no match for human brains seeing a source and date to judge article value and validity.
Even if RM is a special case for backup I would not have a problem with TM external and iDrive cloud backups done at the end of the day when all is idle. For RM on my M4 MBA the real problem is whether the program can avoid crashing or locking up every few minutes to get anything done.
Apple, not my idol unlike your affection for Windows, is always slow to adopt new features and change things. They like to be last to the party but implement something in a simple and customer useful manner. MacOS 26 is good example of this. Many long popular 3rd party utilities will lose most of their market as Apple added the basics of their apps into the OS (sherlocking). My personal software and hardware choices are based on long experience with both systems and a focus on reliabliity and ease of use.
Without even checking your history of replies, I think it wouldn’t be far off to say that an Apple product/feature or those of RM-competitor FTM are more often mentioned by You, than any other RM/genealogy related response, in my estimation.
Probably true since I dumped Windows on retirement and try to use FTM and RM on mac. RM is powerful, has training videos and a forum with several expert helpers like Jerry but I keep having to depend on FTM due the current flaky RM 10 behaviour on M4 MBA.
iDrive is real cheap UNLESS you exceed your quota. At the time I used it by default it included everything currently plugged in so and didn’t make it clear it had until I got the over quota bill, which was 4-5 times the base cost per GB. Their interface wouldn’t let me remove the unnecessary backups, and their support refused to help, so I had to do a charge back to get the $300 back they overbilled me and went back to using Acronis. They may be better now, but I recommend caution.
I delete particular folders every few months and run a fresh backup at once to cull old versions and control storage space. Despite being paperless and copying my spouse’s files to my computer every 10 days my total storage to back up is 50 GB and costs $10/year for 500GB from iDrive.
My total backup volume is about 5TB, and I try to have two backup methods (one is Time Machine on my Macs). Most of that space is not volatile as it’s scanned negatives or documents and digitized tapes so it doesn’t need to be backed up frequently and is kept on a separate drive from the OS where the documents folders that are volatile are.
I looked at iDrive because it was supposed to work on Windows and Mac (like Acronis) and initially seemed like it would be less expensive to replace the “cloud” portion of my backup. When it grabbed drives unexpectantly and then support was rather rude and condescending, I soured on it pretty quick.
Obviously my use case is uncommon, with two Macs and and two Windows machines and about 8TB of local storage between them. That said, I could easily see someone that used one of those services that scans old pictures plugging in the drive they’re returned on and accidentially blowing their quota, which is why I recommend caution.
I switched from Backblaze to iDrive several years ago and found all aspects of their service better. BB would not interest you with Windows pc but perhaps iDrive support has improved since you got burned. For time machine I run a continuous and a 10 day backup to separate drives. In the past I had my sole TM backup drive fail and only just recovered my data from a drive about to be erased.