Source Type confusion

I’ve been poking around at learning proper sourcing of my facts/events in RM11, and I just don’t seem to get it. There are SO MANY source types to use in RM, and it’s daunting to select the right one every time.

I want my sourcing to be well done, and generally within professional genealogical practices because some day I intend to share my data with lots of extended family.

Personally, it doesn’t seem to me to be good personal practice to use Free Form sourcing (an option within RM). Although, I’ve actually done that up to this point for ease of entry. But my RM dataset is really small presently.

I now have a copy of ‘Evidence Explained’ by Elizabeth Shown Mills (4th ed), and I’m slogging my way through it… But, even there, it seems that a single source found might actually fit more than one of her standards.

I’m sure others have had similar experiences.

  • How have you dealt with this?
  • Do I need to generate my own source templates?
  • If so, can I then delete the unused out-of-box types?

Thanks again. You guys have helped me so much these last few months!

Do you need to generate your own templates? No. But I have and you might want to as well.

The built-in templates are based on EE, but I created my own (also based on EE) with some additional details. I did so because I personally wanted to capture and document them as part of my bread-crumbing. You can see an example of one of my templates in this post:

Can you delete the RM built-in templates? No. But you can copy them and then modify the copy.

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So what exactly does this mean? I guarantee that everyone has their own definition. Way too many people spend way too much time tearing out their hair and wailing ‘woe be to my sources’.

The whole point of a source is to show where your information came from. Your source should also allow anyone following your trail to go to the same material and find the same information that you did. Way too many folks spend to much time putting way to much information into a source. Using a database on Ancestry as an example, the only real information you need is that it was found on Ancestry and the name of the database, and any pertinent volume or page numbers. What I don’t need is some really long bread crumb trail down to a specific image with a long URL.

Another example of way more info than needed is the Findagrave template that is common, and I use this solely because @KimberlyGreen mentioned it and brought it to my mind. All that you truly need is the URL to the memorial, yet in the original template that I downloaded from Rootsmagic they had all kinds of stuff like the photographer and the photographer’s ID number .

SO I guess my point is to stop getting too entangled with the Shown-Mills jungle and and just think through what is REALLY needed to get you, or a future researcher, back to that piece of data…and just trim out all of the rest.

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If you make your own templates use an * or other symbol at the beginning of the name so they show at the top of the list of sources. Makes it easier to find when you want to use again

Margaret

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My 2 cents … I was told years ago that sources are only good if someone else can use them to find the information. Send it to someone else and see if they can use your current sources to find the data.

50 years from now some sources may not be able to be verified as they no longer exist.

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I have made my own source templates.

When source templates first appeared in RM4, I tried them and found then to be extremely hard to use - much harder than just using free form which is all we had before RM4. That’s ironic, because the whole point of source templates it that it is supposed to make creating sources and citations much easier to create.

I owned Evidence Explained version 1 at the time. I’m since then up to Evidence Explained version 3. I haven’t yet upgraded to Evidence Explained version 4. But my experience with Evidence Explained so far is that also is much too hard to use. It’s an 800 page book, and it’s almost like you have to have a Ph. D. in sources and citations to use it. Version 4 may or may not be any easier. I don’t know for sure.

In principle, it seems to me that sources and citations ought to be simple. They are just the way you identify your evidence. You have some sort of “document” as your evidence. There is a lot of flexibility associated with the word “document”. Your document might be a phone call or a text message from your cousin telling you about their new grandbaby. In that case, your “document” might just be a simple text file memorializing that phone call or text message. That text file becomes your “document”. Things like a marriage record or a birth certificate or a death certificate or a census page or an obituary or a tombstone inscription are their own document.

With that in mind, your citation simply needs to answer two questions: 1) what is your document, and 2) where did you find it?

There were two reasons I found RM4’s source templates hard to use. The first reason was that there were too many of them, and I didn’t know which ones to use. The second reason was that even after I found a suitable template, it inevitably has several fields to be filled in that I could not understand. It’s like the template was asking me a question where not only did I not know the answer to the question, I didn’t even understand what the question was asking.

So I developed my own templates. I have one birth record template, one death record template, etc. And the fields in my templates are all questions that make sense to me and which fulfill my goal of answering the questions “what is the document” and “where did I find it”.

Well, there was a third reason I found RM4’s source templates hard to use. It’s that the workflow you had to go through to use them felt very awkward and unnatural. So I came up with my own workflow to mitigate that problem. It’s not perfect because you still have to work within the confines of what RM will let you do. But mostly what I do is to make a copy of an existing source/citation and change it a little to make into the new source/citation.

After making my workflow for entering source/citations as easy as possible, two major problems remained. One problem was that I would need to memorize the citation and paste into other facts or other people. It can be very clicky to navigate to the people where the source/citation needs to be pasted. The other problem was that it was very clicky to add media to the source/citation.

The first problem has never been solved per se. But starting with RM11, for census records in particular it is now possible to copy a entire census fact including its citation to other family members, and it’s now easy to choose the family members. Just being able to copy the census fact was not enough to make the process easy. It was also necessary to make choosing the family members easy. That was what happened with RM11.

The second problem with it being too clicky to add media to source/citations has never been solved. In fact, ever since RM8 it has been harder than it was with RM4 through RM7 because of the new sliding panels in RM8. I just deal with it. Somebody is bound to suggest that you can do it from the media file itself without using the source/citation sliding panels. It’s correct that you can do it that way, but for me it’s even harder to do it that way than it is to do with the sliding panels.

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That’s one of my biggest concerns about using online sources and trying to document them. Instead of saying I found a microfiche image on ‘such-and-such’ site, I want to actually document the home repository of origin. So, if the fiche was from a census maintained by the US National Archives and Records Administration (NARA), I want to document the fiche number and frame/image# (if known), and attribute it to NARA instead of say Ancestry.

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Then you would probably like my Federal Census source template, which does exactly that. It documents where I found it online (usually Ancestry), but also the NARA microfilm details.

The Census and Find a Grave use cases are precisely why I started building my own templates. I’ve also got one for online newspaper archives.

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Unless you visited a facility where you actually viewed the image then it should not be documented. I will have to check again but the last I knew, NARA did not make their films available online.

That sounds interesting. Any chance you might be willing to share?

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also if you have one for Find-A-grave - I would be curious what yours looks like @KimberlyGreen

here is find-a-grave

(I adapted an existing one )

I have Evidence Explained 4th edition and really like the template approach the book takes. I’ve been making RootsMagic templates to match the templates from the book. So far it’s 5, 7, 9, and 10, as I only make an RM template when I need it. This has made sourcing a lot easier for me.

Regarding proper sourcing, it really is supposed to include the full provenance of the record. This helps show that you have gone through the thought process of analyzing the validity of the record you are relying on.

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@kevync1985 Kimberly had posted the link to the Find-a-Grave above-- guess you missed it

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I took the advice from @KimberlyGreen and created my own. I was able to consolidate into the following seven custom templates:

  • Vital and other records
  • Census records
  • Property and deed records
  • Court and probate records
  • Newspaper and newsletter articles
  • Books
  • Website articles and blogs

For Find a Grave, I use the “vital and other records” template, which I also use for military records. In fact, it serves as sort of a catch-all for many of the records that I encounter, but avoids using the freeform template.

You may find it useful to copy some templates in RM to create your custom sources, but in most cases, I ended up defining the fields that I wanted for each template myself. In particular, I often differed with RM about what the fields should be named and what should go at the Source level vs. the Citation level. I also configured the sentence structure for the Bibliography, Full Footnote and Short Footnote to be the way that I wanted. After I was done configuring, I tested it by re-entering an existing source/citation to make sure that there were fields for everything important, and that the bibliography and footnote entries made sense.

To make them easy to find and so that they sort at the top when entering new ones, my custom templates start with 00 and end with my initials. For example, “00 Book (custom to MGB)”. This allows me to search on either 00 or MGB (my initials) to find them. This is probably a “belts and braces” approach (meaning that you don’t need both), but it suited me.

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Here are some User submitted Source Templates.
Download the ones you want, open RM database, select Sources and Import.

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I kinda wish the Wiki were still active for RM11 and future releases… RM Community is nice. But a Wiki would allow consolidation and referencing for users. Alas, “…if wishes were horses…”

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@kfunk … Sure. Happy to share :blush:

I wish I could just attach the template export file for you. But this site doesn’t permit it.

Here’s a screen cap of the definition …

Here’s an example use for one of my 4th ggfs …

And one that’s a more recent article about a 1st cousin once removed Raymond “Oop” Shrauner …

Note that I treat an entire newspaper masthead title as a lumped source, similar to EE’s method. Citations are, then, the specific combination of the issue+page+article. It makes for a fairly long list of sources (135 at last count), but then I can see the geographic distribution at a glance, as well as how common the occurrences were.

she posted the answer about 6 hrs after I asked the question I believe …
thanks though.

Thank you! I will give it a look and see how it works.

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