Issue with Ancestry Webshare -- New User

RootsMagic
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1

Hi everyone;

I am a relatively new user with RootsMagic 11 and have had a few issues with using the Ancestry Webshare feature. The issue outlined below doesn’t always happen but I have found the problem a half dozen times over the past few months. (I still consider myself a new user even though I used RootsMagic back in the RM3 days and upgraded to the latest about six months ago.)

The issue is that when adding a spouse to person who shows the correct spouse both in RootsMagic and Ancestry, I am not given the choice to Link the two individuals. I can only Add either one to the other database.

Here is an illustrated example:

Spouse_Issue_a

If I click on the Ancestry spouse, I only get the option to Add to RootsMagic. If I click on the RootsMagic spouse, I again only get an option to Add the spouse to Ancestry.

When click to Add the Ancestry spouse to RootsMagic, I get the following. This initially looks like it is going to work. However…

Spouse_Issue_b

Once again, clicking on any of these three possible spouses only gives the option to Add to the other database. I never get the expected option to Link to the other. I can add duplicates any number of times to the opposing databases but never reach the point of having the option to Link rather than Add them.

So far, the only solution I have found to this is to delete the person I am trying to the link spouse to and then reconstruct from scratch. This is very time consuming.

My two questions are:

  • What causes this situation to arise? (As mentioned, this is the rare, but annoying, exception and Adding and Linking spouses usually works fine.)
  • What is the correct set of steps to fix this when it happens short of deleting the person and recreating from scratch?

John

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2

That has happened to me on occasion and sometimes points to there being duplicated people in either Ancestry or RM (any of the 3 shown). Otherwise stumped!

3

Looks like you are using Ancestry WebHints. It’s not intented to match family members. Only add them to the database if they are not already there. The hint would either need to be on the family member’s webhint to work it, or you would need to match to them on the Ancestry website. Another option is to copy the source and paste it on the family member in RM.

4

Charlie;

Thanks for the confirmation of having seen this issue before. I have verified that each of the three people involved (the wife and the two husbands) each do not have duplicates in either the RootsMagic tree nor in the Ancestry tree.

One of the things that I have seen cause this is when one of the persons involved had an unknown sex. However, I have carefully verified that that is not the case here. The female is shown as a female in both RootsMagic and Ancestry and the two husbands both show as male in both RootsMagic and Ancestry.

I am also stumped as to why this happens and how to fix it.

rzamor1;

I don’t completely understand your comments.

I did use the wrong term in my original post. The two screen shots are from the RootsMagic Ancestry TreeShare dialog window. (I originally used the term WebShare which is the incorrect feature name. Sorry about that.)

Both the female and the two male husbands are already present in both RootsMagic and Ancestry. They also show up as spouses as expected in both RootsMagic and Ancestry. The issue I am having is that the TreeShare does not show the second husband as being the same person between RootsMagic and Ancestry in the TreeShare dialog window. Further, TreeShare will not allow me to link them as being the same person.

To further the explanation as to what I am seeing, here are a few more screenshots.

First, these are the RootsMagic People | Family view of the wife showing each of her two husbands:

GU-OM_RM

GU-JA_RM

Next up the Ancestry relationship view of the wife:

GU-OM-JA_Ancestry
GU-OM-JA_Ancestry713×634 25 KB

To me, each of these look correct and compatible in both RootsMagic and Ancestry. However, the screenshots in the opening post illustrate that even though everything looks correct, the Ancestry TreeShare feature is not able to simultaneously link the two male spouses to the wife.

I also ran an experiment yesterday. Rather than delete the wife and then manually reconstruct all the data for her, I exported just her to a GEDCOM file and then deleted her from RootsMagic. After running the tools to rebuild indexes, clean out phantom records, and compact the RootsMagic database, I imported the GEDCOM and added her back to the family and linked her two husbands.

While this added her back, I was still unable to get Ancestry TreeShare to work. The exact same issue was again present where I can add the second spouse but was never given the option to link him.

I am still stumped as to what is going on and how to fix it…

John

5

In this case instead of matching under the relationship go to the index and show everyone. Then display the spouse that is not matched. Confirm there is only one copy on either side. Check that you don’t have a surname in the given name field that could have thrown them off. It should let you match them from there.

6

rzamor1;

I am sorry for being rather dense but I don’t understand what you are asking. I am only about six months in for using the Ancestry TreeShare feature of RootsMagic. My inexperience with TreeShare may be keeping me from following your shorthand instructions.

I am not trying to match spouses using the Edit Relationship Dialog in Ancestry. I am trying to match the second husband using the RM Ancestry TreeShare feature as shown in my first post at the top of this thread. I was only showing the relationship dialog screenshot to illustrate that both RootsMagic and Ancestry both show the Husband / Wife relationship for both husbands of the subject wife.

While RM and Ancestry both show the second husband as being a spouse, the TreeShare feature seems not to recognize the second husband on Ancestry and being the same person as the second husband on RM. Ancestry however, does recognize the first husband as being the same person as the first husband in RM. The first husbands link correctly in TreeShare while the second husband refuses to be linked even though there are no duplicates and the given names and surnames match exactly.

When you suggest going to the index to show everyone, is that on RootsMagic or Ancestry? I know how to get to the index (People | People View) in RM but if I should be doing that on Ancestry, I am not sure where you are pointing me. I only know the Ancestry Tree | List View on the Ancestry side. Is that the 'index" you speak of or is there an Index View on Ancestry I have not come across?

In the RM side, yes if I go to the People | People View, there is only one copy of the problematic spouse shown there. The same is true on the Ancestry Tree | List View. Only one copy of the problematic spouse is there.

In each case (RM and Ancestry), the Given and Surname fields are correct and separate. I can see where that would cause a similar problem, though. It’s just not the case here.

I am lost again by your comment that “It should let you match them from there.”. Exactly how would I match the spouse from the RM People | People View or the Ancestry Tree | List View? I get lost on that instruction.

Maybe I would follow your method better with either a screenshot or link to a video segment showing what you suggest I try.

John

7

you are NOT being dense – but your experience level may by contributing to things getting lost in translation. This type of help is not easy through a discussion board. Not sure if there is a local Rootsmagic users group in your area but that migth be something to explore. If not maybe find someone to “Zoom” with you to walk through some things. I am good at many things --but personally I do not use Ancestry treeshare that way (I only update from RM to ANC vs maintaining all changes )

8

Instead of highlighting Gladys Upton in the TreeShare index highlight John Wynne Archer. Make sure the box to “Only show changed people” is unchecked. Check if John is listed more than once on the RM or Ancestry side. He should appear on two separate rows, one for RM and the other for Ancestry. If you click on either row do you see a potential match on the opposite side to select and link to. If the matches are blank click on “Show all”. If you still don’t see a potential match then check outside of TreeShare in RM and on Ancestry if this person’s name fields are correct.

9

rzamor1;

Thank you very much for the more detailed instructions. I now see what you wanted.

Unfortunately, the same issue persists when I approach from the husband side instead of the Wife’s side. I get two lines with the wife but clicking on either one only gives the option to Add to the opposing database. (Click the RM wife and you can only Add to Ancestry. Click on the Ancestry wife and you can only Add to RM. This has the same issue all along regardless of whether I try with the husband or the wife.)

Below is a screenshot of the result of the method you described:

RM-TV-Archer
RM-TV-Archer911×632 70 KB

The sidebar of the TreeShare view shows that only one John Wynne Archer is present. This is also verified by looking at the RM People | People View. In addition, on Ancestry, searching for a duplicate for John Wynne Archer shows nothing. Examining the Tree View List on Ancestry only shows one John Wynne Archer. Is there some other way of checking for duplicates on Ancestry?

It is beginning to look like the issue is with this husband. I will try to trick of exporting him from RootsMagic as GEDCOM, deleting the person, and importing the GEDCOM back to see if that does anything. It didn’t help when I did that with Gladys but maybe the issue is actually with John.

John

10

If there were duplicates for either one of them you should see it in the TreeShare list. The only time it’s off is if there is an issue with the name and it’s sorting in a different place. In TreeShare highlight the husband and then the wife. On each of them go to Options, “Unlink this RootsMagic person and Ancestry person”. Once they are both unlinked try linking them back up again.

11

rzamor1;

OK, we’re making progress. I now see what is happening but don’t yet understand exactly where is issue lies. I am beginning to suspect a bug somewhere in either the TreeShare API between RootsMagic and Ancestry or a bug in the ‘swap husband and wife’ edit function. More below…

I tried what you said and unlinked both Gladys and John using TreeShare. I re-linked them and the issue remained. I noticed that they were not automatically selected in the link options this time. So, I unlinked them again and closed RM. I reopened RM and went back into TreeShare. They now appeared ready to simply select the checkbox to link. Doing so, I still saw the original problem of not being able to link spouses.

My next test showed something very interesting. I once again unlinked them and then deleted both people from RM. I closed and restarted RM and opened TreeShare. This time, I used the Add from Ancestry to add both back into RM. When I did that and then looked closely at the TreeShare side by side comparisons I noticed that both Gladys and John were now showing the opposite sex in RM compared to Ancestry. I unlinked them once again.

While in this state, I went to each person in RM and edited the Sex to correct the error created when Adding from Ancestry. (This is even though Ancestry correctly shows each of the correct sex.) I then re-linked them in TreeShare with the correctly edited sex.

Now the each showed the correct spouses and and everything looked perfect. However, When I went to the People | Family view in RM, I see that Gladys is now at the top of the screen where the husband should be when looking at John as the Spouse. When I selected to show her first husband, Ovie, she popped down to the second slot where the wife should be.

Toggling the spouse to show moved her back and forth between the husband and wife position on the Family view screen. With Ovie, she is the Wife, while with John she is the husband. So, I did some reading of the help file and found that the positions can be swapped. I did that and she then showed in the wife position for both husbands.

However! After doing the swap, the TreeShare dialog once again shows her spouse split on two lines that only allow Adding and not Linking. The swap husband and wife feature had spit the linked spouses in TreeShare. I found this was reversible. If I swapped her to be the husband in the spouse view with John, all were once again joined in TreeShare.

I am now convinced this is an issue of a sex mismatch. The problem, though, is that each seems correct in both databases. Whether John shows as linked or as two separate people depends only on where Gladys shows in the Family view – Husband or Wife position. Very odd to say the least.

I will continue playing and looking. I’d really like to understand why Ancestry swapped the sex of each person when I added them back after deleting them from RM. It’s as if some piece of information is not being cleaned up after deleting the person, closing RM, restarting RM, and then pulling the deleted folks back in from Ancestry.

John

1 Like
12

I think I understand what you are describing it might be similar to what can happen with FSC & Fam Search. I do not have advise how to fix in ATS (Ancestry Tree Share).

13

Unlink them from Ancestry and make sure the sex and positions are correct in both locations. Then link them back up again and see if that straightens it out.

14

All;

I have been trying a number of different permutations of deleting, adding, linking, and unlinking the three people that are showing this issue. After trying eight different ways, I have come up empty. Where I am now and what I have learned is the following:

  • If Gladys shows up as a Female Husband in RM, the two spouses can be linked.
  • If Gladys shows up as a Female Wife, Ovie and be Linked but John cannot.
    .
  • When I use the Swap Mother and Father RM edit function, it changes the position and sex of the couple when viewed in TreeShare.

Maybe I am reading the Help file incorrectly but I interpreted the Swap Mother and Father function to only change the displayed position on the People | Family view in RM. I did not expect it to change the sex of the two individuals in the family.

I’ll keep playing with it but some odd interaction seems to be going on between the RM Swap Mother and Father and the TreeShare. The sex of the two people does not change in the RM views when swapping but the sex does show up as changed when viewing the two people in TreeShare.

John

15

Yes, that is one of the things I tried. As I mentioned above, something odd is happening with the sex of each in TreeShare even when Ancestry and RM both show the correct sexes.

I will try to take screenshots of what is going on at each stage and see if it makes sense to you. This will take a while to document but I’ll get it posted sometime today.

John

16

On one occasion I entered the whole name in the forename field in Ancestry by mistake and left the surname field blank. The name looked correct in the profile name in Ancestry but when I TreeShared noticed, luckily, that the RM name was going to be , full name not surname, forename. I didn’t accept that but if I had it would not come up in a search looking for duplicates in either RM or Ancestry. Just a thought but maybe a duplicate with the correct name might be added if a hint was accepted in Ancestry? Maybe worth a look.

17

Charlie;

I had already checked for name issues very carefully. There is no issue with the names or sexes in each of RootsMagic and Ancestry. Below are cropped screenshots from both programs showing the two individuals.

Names_in_RM

Names_in_Ancestry
Names_in_Ancestry887×319 12.3 KB

The issue appears to involve some (as yet) unknown issue with the sexes of each when using TreeShare. Within each database everything looks good to me as seen above.

rzamor1;

I did not get a chance to do a systematic set of documented steps to show how to recreate the issue yesterday. Sorry. I was interrupted and am just now catching back up a little. This evening’s schedule will probably not let me finish up today either. I am mapping out a plan to show the issue and will then go through that plan step by step and take a screenshot to show what I see at each step.

Others may not be able to recreate the issue from the steps I will show but at least someone with deep knowledge of RootsMagic and TreeShare may be able to see enough to take a guess as to what is happening and how to fix my issue.

By they way, I also found another husband and wife that are showing these same symptoms. That makes two known cases out out of the ~1,800 people in my database. As I mentioned in the first post of the thread, it’s rare but I have found it a few other times in the past. Those prior cases were only resolved by deleting everyone in both families and then recreating it all by hand. I hope to find a way here to fix the issue without that arduous amount of work.

John

18

Open a support ticket and share the database and Ancestry tree with the agent. We can then look at it and see if we can figure out what’s causing it.

https://support.rootsmagic.com/hc/en-us/requests/new

1 Like
19

Will do. First, though, I still want to carefully document what I’m seeing to make it very clear exactly what I am asking them to look at. Having done problem support in the past, I know how frustrating vague issues can be to work on.

John

2 Likes
20

Sorry for not replying to your post earlier.

I use treeshare a lot on a large tree (c 67,000 people). I have several examples of the kind shown in your screenshots, where the family relationships are correct in Ancestry and in RM, but they show up as different between the two.

My advice is to ignore them; your objective is to get your tree properly synchronised between the two places, and if you have done this, then you have accomplished your objective. Trying to make everything look smart in treeshare is just adding an unhelpful additional objective to your list.

Trying to find out what had caused these problems, I noticed some cases like this

image
image1834×877 136 KB

If you look closely, you will see that RM shows his father as Charlotte Blanche Smyly. In this case, swapping the parents into the correct position in RM solves the problem, at least when looked at from their children’s point of view. (ie the screen shot above is fixed.) But even after doing that, problems remain in some other views, such as between the two spouses

image
image1588×811 84.8 KB

(You see the equivalent problem from her point of view.)

In some other cases, I think that the problem arises when I have merged two people in parallel on both RM and Ancestry and done it the opposite way round, and issues might have arisen when I have fixed parents in different ways, adding a missing parent/spouse in Ancestry and creating a new family in RM, although I wouldn’t swear to either of these.

Anyway, whatever the cause, I decided just to live with it. My data is correct in both systems, and that is what matters to me.

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