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here’s the clean, historically‑accurate way to think about Titles vs. Occupations vs. Offices in RM11 when dealing with someone like Sir John Howard, 1st Duke of Norfolk. The key is understanding how medieval English society classified rank, status, and service — and then mapping that to RM’s fact types.
The core rule
A Title is hereditary or formally granted as a rank of nobility.
An Occupation is a job or role someone performs.
An Office is an appointed or elected governmental/administrative position.
Medieval England used Knight, Baron, Duke, Sheriff, Treasurer, MP, etc., but they fall into different buckets.
Let’s classify each of Howard’s “labels” correctly.
1. Titles (RM11 → “Title” fact type)
These are ranks of nobility or chivalric orders formally conferred by the Crown.
These ARE Titles:
Knight (1461) — knighthood is not an occupation; it is a formal rank of chivalry.
He was knighted by Edward IV at Towton.
Baron (Lord Howard, 1470) — created a baron by Henry VI.
Knight of the Garter (1472) — membership in the Order of the Garter is a chivalric title.
Duke of Norfolk (1483) — hereditary peerage title.
Earl Marshal of England (1483) — technically an office and a hereditary dignity; RM users usually record it as a Title because it is inheritable.
Why these belong under “Title”
They represent status, rank, or noble dignity, not employment. They do not expire when the job ends (except by attainder). They are part of his identity.
2. Offices (RM11 → “Office” fact type)
These are appointed or elected governmental roles.
These ARE Offices:
Treasurer of the Royal Household (1467–1474) — an appointed royal administrative office.
Sheriff of Norfolk & Suffolk (1461) — a royal administrative office.
Sheriff of Oxfordshire (1467) — same category.
Constable of Norwich Castle / Colchester Castle (1461) — appointed offices.
Privy Counsellor (1483) — political office.
Admiral of England, Ireland, and Aquitaine (1483) — high royal office.
High Steward for the Coronation of Richard III (1483) — ceremonial office.
Why these belong under “Office”
They are positions of responsibility, not ranks. They have start/end dates and are not hereditary.
3. Occupations (RM11 → “Occupation” fact type)
These describe what someone does in a general sense.
These ARE Occupations:
Shire Knight for Suffolk (MP for Suffolk, 1449) — this is a role in Parliament, not a noble rank.
He was elected as Shire Knight (MP) for Suffolk in 1449.
Why “Shire Knight” is NOT a Title
A Shire Knight is simply a Member of Parliament representing a county — a job, not a rank. The word “knight” here is misleading; it refers to the social class of the representative, not knighthood.
4. The tricky one: “Knight”
You asked: Is being a Knight an Occupation or a Title?
It is a Title.
Knighthood is a formal honor conferred by the monarch. It is not employment. It is equivalent to “Sir” and is part of his permanent style.
Record it as:
Title: Knight (1461)
Recommended RM11 structure for Sir John Howard
Here’s how I would document him in RM11:
Titles
Knight (1461)
Baron Howard (1470)
Knight of the Garter (1472)
Duke of Norfolk (1483)
Earl Marshal of England (1483)
Offices
Shire Knight (MP) for Suffolk (1449)
Sheriff of Norfolk & Suffolk (1461)
Sheriff of Oxfordshire (1467)
Constable of Norwich Castle (1461)
Constable of Colchester Castle (1461)
Treasurer of the Royal Household (1467–1474)
Governor of Calais (c. 1470)
Privy Counsellor (1483)
Admiral of England, Ireland, and Aquitaine (1483)
High Steward for the Coronation of Richard III (1483)
Occupation
Soldier / Military Commander (general descriptor, optional)